Eagle Problems....BIG

[evmori 11]

Fact is I know the SM. I have not brought this up with him since I don't feel it's my place to do so. However during a conversation we had a few weeks ago he mentioned the appeal and the fact that it was still unresolved.

 

And you didn't ask what appeal or why it is still unresolved?

 

Fact is that I spoke with Michael Lovecchio from National to ask a general question about the process without mentioning names. He asked me if this was about Justin with out me ever using the Scout's name. I figure he's been getting calls on this. He told me to call Council.

 

Did you also figure Mr. Lovecchio might have heard about all the banter on this site about it? Did you call council?

 

Fact is I've spoke with mdsummer on more than one occasion about the appeal and we've all read about it here.

 

This adds nothing to the validity of this situation.

 

Fact is that mdsummer told me recently that the issue has been returned to Council.

 

Recently? Is that yesterday or within the last 6 months? And did she state what council was going to do about it or why it was returned?

 

Fact is this appeal has been mentioned to me by three different people, the SM, the mom and National.

 

So? This proves nothing.

 

I believe (and this is just an opinion as opposed to the above information which is all fact) that the new regs. on defining "Active" has something to do with why this is taking so long.

 

If I'm not mistaken, those regs went inot place AFTER this started. And even if they were in place, this is taking way to long for that to be the reason. Justin did something and got caught.

[Eagle732 27]

Well Ed, I could answer every one of your questions but I won't because there is not an answer I could give you that would satisfy you. No wonder those who have insight into this situation have stopped posting.

[nldscout 18]

"Fact is that I spoke with Michael Lovecchio from National to ask a general question about the process without mentioning names. He asked me if this was about Justin with out me ever using the Scout's name. I figure he's been getting calls on this. He told me to call Council. "

 

So What I find amazing is you just called up national, just happened to get a national executive on the line and without knowing you, never having met you he right out of the blue tells you if your asking about "Justin" to call his council. I have a hard time beleiving thats going to happen. They don't even talk to ordinary people on the phone, let alone mention a scout by name to a total stranger.

 

[NeilLup 13]

"They don't even talk to ordinary people on the phone,",

 

I'm sorry nldscout but I can't let this pass. It simply isn't true.

 

1) You're not an "ordinary person." You're a Scouter.

2) The National Council and the personnel at the National Council exist to assist local councils and to assist Scouts and Scouters. They know it too! They know that their salaries are paid by registration fees and other sums paid by local councils and Scouters.

3) If you call the National Council, you will reach the receptionist. If you explain what you want, he or she will try to identify who can help you and put you in touch with them. They likely will not be there and you will leave a message. They will call you back.

4) Very likely, they will refer you back to your local council and this is as it should be. It is the job of the local council to assist and support local Scouters. But if it is information or literature or something else, the person WILL talk to you and will do their best to help you.

5) National Council employees are human and you can hit one on a bad day. Messages do get dropped. But I truly find it inconceivable and completely out of line with my experience that a National Council employee would say. "You're an ordinary person. I refuse to talk to you." (This, by the way, is not necessarily the case in dealing with banks or credit card companies or phone companies or some governmental agencies.) National Council employees do believe in "A Scout is Friendly", "A Scout is Cheerful" and "A Scout is Kind."

 

If you had a bad experience trying to contact a National Council employee, that is regrettable and I am sorry for that. That is very different from my experience. But if you didn't have such an experience and are just blowing smoke, then with respect, I think you owe the National Council employees an apology.

 

I'm not commenting in any way on the idea that a National Council employee would discuss the situation of an individual Scout. I am simply commenting on the idea that National Council employees don't talk to ordinary people.

[evmori 11]

Well Ed, I could answer every one of your questions but I won't because there is not an answer I could give you that would satisfy you. No wonder those who have insight into this situation have stopped posting.

 

Then answer them.

 

I read back through this thread and I was believing that this Scout was getting the run-around until this got shot down at the Council level. We don't have all the facts! We never will.

 

Michael Lovecchio is a program assistant for youth development. Ya coulda got him on the phone. I'd be more interested in talking to his boss, though.

[ljnrsu 10]

Ev, since you think the time frame is excessive I suggest you call National and speak with Team Leader for Advancement or his assistant. I am sure she will be able to answer your questions and explain the current National appeal process.

 

Mdsummer called me 10:28 AM on Feb 23, my phone saves who called and when, she called National and was told that the Advancement Committee had sent some questions for her Council Advancement Committee to answer. She called her Council and was told they had received Nationals questions and Council Advancement Committee should have their response ready to send back to National by the end of the week. Is this is recent enough for you Ev?

 

Mdsummer confirmed that she will post Nationals decision whether approved or denied.

 

Nldscout National does answer the phone and talk to ordinary people or in my case a Scouter when I called them mid Nov.

 

 

[evmori 11]

Based on the information posted, you don't think this an excessive amount of time for an appeal, ljnrsu?

 

I'm not calling anyone about this. This isn't my problem. I know how long normal appeals take and this is by no means a normal appeal as we were led to believe.

 

When mdsummer45 does post the results of the appeal, will the entire story be posted as well?

 

I love how we are getting 2nd hand information.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

Ed, I am not sure how to break this to you, but, ahem, this is the internet, any information we get is either second hand or first person biased. It's up to us to filter it and determine how much energy to expend on it. No one owes us anything. People show up and give us stories, ask questions, ask opnions, what they do with the information is up to them. Its not like we signed a loyalty oath when we joined this site.

 

If somethng bugs you, don't contribute to the thread, if no one responds to a thread it sinks and goes away. If you keep posting in a thread it stays current

[BulldogBlitz 10]

40 pages on a forum. must be a lot of folks that know the down and dirty details of this... that's waaaaaay too much speculating.

 

so... if a scout has all his merit badges prior to 18... and a completed eagle project prior to 18...

 

is there a legitimate way to say, "sorry, you just aren't ready for the next step"?

 

i know i look at my son, who just turned 11 and joined, and think he'll make a fine eagle candidate one day. today... nah, he's got no skills and a moderate amount of maturity.

 

you'd think if this were a simple personality difference between the parent/scout/scoutmaster that there'd be a swift response.

[WAKWIB 107]

ljnrsu 2/8/10 writes: "the letters of denial from Troop, District and Council state that Justin did not meet Scout Spirit Requirement. Troop and District letters mention not meeting Troop requirement of attendance at Troop meetings and outings. What is interesting is that Justin earned Life June 2006 and Eagle POR of ASPL which was signed off Jan 2007 but they used his then current POR of Instructor in their letters."

 

The big problem I see is that the Troop chooses to add requirements to the Eagle Rank. Because (based on really old posts on this thread) the Scoutmaster might be a big-wheel in the district and council those entities decided to support him. Don't know what the slow down of National might be, other than being conflicted about the information provided by the Council who probably has the lamest case in the world for turning down the rank advancement. If the Scout in question had a real criminal activity/behavior problem I don't think any appeal would have been filed at all, and if it did it would have got shot down, pronto.

Granted, we're mostly speculating. But that thing about "troop requirements for attendance for troop meetings and outings" seems like a big red flag.

 

 

[nrp1488 9]

Only five more posts after this to hit 600. There must be someone out there who hasn't weighed in. Come on, folks. We can do it!

[click23 66]

BulldogBlitz asked "is there a legitimate way to say, "sorry, you just aren't ready for the next step"?" Before I reply, let me say that I am an Eagle Scout and what I am about to say is saddens me a bit.

 

The Eagle Scout rank is just a set of requirements, no more no less. Basically the only way for a boy not to pass his EBOR, if it comes to light that he has not actually completed the requirements that are signed off in his book. Example, EBOR asks "Where is your most memorable camping experience as scout?", and the boy replies "we never went camping".

 

As for a scoutmasters conference, the requirements simply state "Take part in a Scoutmaster conference", no where does it say pass, just take part in.

 

So no, there is no legitimate reason, assuming he has completed the requirements as stated.(This message has been edited by click23)

[well-up-in-his-60s-guy 10]

It seems that the original denial was based on the Scout not completing the Eagle requirements because it was felt that he was deficient in living the Oath and Law in his daily life, thus he did not fulfill the "Scout Spirit" requirement. That decision was made by his Scoutmaster, the person charged by BSA to make that determination. There is nothing in those statements that shows anyone adding to the Eagle requirements. What it says, simply, is that this Scout didn't complete the requirements and was turned down based on that fact.

[Brian85 10]

Do I make it to the 600th post?

Like ev has stated, it would be nice to hear the 'real' story. Just imagine if nothing occurs and 15 years passes, and zap...someone pulls up the old records and finds that an Eagle was never awarded...What a great story it will be, especially if he is successful and happily volunteering with his son's Scout unit. What a way to show Scout Spirit...

[nldscout 18]

Well this is number 599, WHO IS GOING TO BE 600, come on we can do it!!!