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Basementdweller

Who carries a firearm on Scout Outings???

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So...in the opinion of the gun nuts out there, what is the best concealed carry firearm for BSA outings?

I'm ASSUMING (please forgive me if I'm wrong), that since Cyclops is asking this question, he/she is NOT a LEO.  IF he/she is NOT an LEO, then according to the G2SS, he/she shouldn't be carrying a firearm on an BSA outing.

 

Again, I'm making assumptions.  And they may or may not be right.

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I'm ASSUMING (please forgive me if I'm wrong), that since Cyclops is asking this question, he/she is NOT a LEO.  IF he/she is NOT an LEO, then according to the G2SS, he/she shouldn't be carrying a firearm on an BSA outing.

 

Again, I'm making assumptions.  And they may or may not be right.

From my reading of the question, I kinda thought he was posing a "what-if" question.  If a scouter were to be able to have a weapon, what kind of weapon would apply in a scouting situation.  I for one, under those circumstances, would shy away from a sawed-off shotgun under my jac-shirt as a bit dangerous to the situation of having a lot of collateral damage of young boys at the Pinewood Derby.  Having a sidearm with me backpacking Yellowstone where weight is an issue, a heavy large-bore rifle might bring down a Grizzly, were as a lightweight .22 with LR hollow points might just get him more angry than one would want to try and deal with.

 

Keep it in mind that a trained civilian in many states are allowed to conceal carry.  In my state ANYONE, trained or not is allowed to open carry a weapon.  In seven states one does not need training nor do they need a permit to conceal carry.  In Texas, until recently one HAD to conceal carry, open carry wasn't allowed.

 

So with that being said, I don't know the best recommendation would be for a blanket national statement on the issue other than go with whatever local option is prevalent in that particular location.  BSA goes with local option on everything else, the question as to whether or not this applies here should be revisited in light of a changing society.

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I don't..............BUT...........if I did.  it would be more for bear/wolf defense than a crazed boy scout hating crazy person.

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I've been in the woods for 60+ years of my life.  Seen plenty of bear, no wolves (their viciousness is over rated), no Boy Scout hating crazies, but I have been shot at a couple of times by stupid hunters and threatened a few times by armed trespassers and I do watch the news.  Every passing day more and more Law Enforcement agencies, i.e. in Florida, Wisconsin, et al, are encouraging people to arm themselves.  So now I do.  Surprisingly, the ones I worry the least about are the bears and wolves (and I'm not even a DL).

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Legally, the BSA can restrict on their property beyond that probably not. 

 

So there is no confusion, we have "non-scouting", family shooting at the local gun club. The club has it's own safety rules and they work well.

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Legally, the BSA can restrict on their property beyond that probably not. 

 

So there is no confusion, we have "non-scouting", family shooting at the local gun club. The club has it's own safety rules and they work well.

That raises an interesting question.  It probably applies differently state-to-state.  Back in the old days when I was working, my company had a no weapons policy for it's entire campus.  It was later modified to inside buildings only because of "legal reasons".  The only thing they could do to enforce inside the buildings was fire you.  If a visitor entered armed, they would be asked to leave.  They could do nothing more legally than escort them out.  (Good luck with that.  :) )

 

Regardless of whether one was on scout property or not, the best BSA could do in our state would be to simply pull the scouter's registration and filing a restraining order to keep them off BSA property in a legal sense.  It's pretty difficult to actually put any teeth into gun restriction rules in a legal carry state.

 

There are legal laws pertaining to carry laws and again I would think they would be state specific.  It is illegal to carry on or within a certain distance of public school K-12 property.  I own property within that range near a high school, so I can carry while on my own property in that case.   But if one were holding scout activities at a school one would legally be unable to carry.  One can carry on state college campuses, but not in buildings.  There is legislature pending to change that at this moment.

 

One can carry in local bars and restaurants were alcohol is served, but cannot consume while there. 

 

Surprisingly there is very little in my state the BSA can do other than pulling a scouter's registration if they break the weapons policy.  In my state, the right to carry is actually quite legal.  Anyone who is legal to own a gun can open carry it.  Those who have had training and shown proficiency in weapons usage can conceal carry it. 

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What to carry?  Something large enough to kill, and small enough to conceal.  

For me that eliminates revolvers; that cylinder is too bulky to hide, and downright uncomfortable poking into my side.  Semi-autos in 9mm or larger will suffice.  Double stack magazines get bulky, so I lean towards single stack.  I've got 2 Colt Delta Elites that take seasonal shifts around my person.  Stainless steel for summer when I sweat, and parkerized/tricked out (tritium sights, polished throat ramp, competition trigger, etc) for cold weather.

If the weather allows wearing a vest, I prefer a shoulder rig with 2 magazines balancing the weight on the other side. I've got my barrel angled up 45 degrees to keep the end of the muzzle from printing out the back.  Warmer weather sees a 'Small of Back' holster inside my jeans, or a special butt pack around my waist.  The SOB requires a bit of discretion when squatting (it pokes out under your shirt) or sitting.  Once I plopped down into a church pew, and everyone wondered who had a hammer in their coat pocket...

 

To those with wadded pantaloons: I hereby deny ever carrying a firearm on any BSA function or trip.  :ph34r:

 

A group of boys armed with tomahawks will represent well against anything you may encounter in the back country, except men with guns.

Edited by JoeBob

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For back country: A 12 gauge pump with a 18 ½ to 20 inch barrel, smooth-bored with an Improved Cylinder choke. For ammunition a full-bore slug like a Foster-style or a Brenneke.

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This made me stop to think.  I couldn't figure out what you astrological sign had to do with you carrying or not.  Then I figured it out - not Leo the Lion but LEO = Law Enforcement Officer.  That makes a lot more sense. :)

 

Whether one chooses to carry (concealed or not) is up to them.  But when we participate in an outing as a member of the BSA, shouldn't we follow their rules/guidelines? 

 

"A Scout is obedient.  A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them."

 

Dr. King?  The Scouting icon.  http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/01/15/martin-luther-king-jr-was-a-boy-scout/

 

What was it that Dr. King got the Nobel Prize for?  

 

Why did we revolt from our lawful government?  Did we win when our disobedience became orderly - organized?

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Maybe to get their opinion?

An opinion about the best concealed carry weapon from someone who is opposed to it is worth what?

 

JoeBob, that's a pragmatic answer, thanks. I'm leaning toward something like a lightweight 9mm with +P Hornady Critical Duty? Sound about right?

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 I'm leaning toward something like a lightweight 9mm with +P Hornady Critical Duty? Sound about right?

Any 9mm with a hollow point or pre-fragmented bullet should serve you well.  Nines are fast and small.  Wanna be sure that all of that energy gets spent inside your target, not sliding through and out the backside.

 

What's the number one rule in a gunfight?

Have a gun.

If your weapon is big and cumbersome, you won't carry it as often.  That applies to the double stack (wide) high capacity magazines.

I carry a full size 1911 style pistol (large but thin) because I'm big:

1) I can conceal it along the lines of my body, 

2) Small guns are not as comfortable in my big hands, and

3) Little people don't mess with me anyway.

Nonetheless, I'm considering a small Keltec pocket pistol in .40S&W for summer carry.

 

Pay attention to what tool you use to deliver, and how it functions.  Practice with that weapon.  I got rid of my pistols that had 'forward to fire' safeties and kept only the 'thumb it down, knock it down' types.  That way I can be focusing on target acquisition and background, not trying to remember which way the safety on this gun goes...

 

 

And hope that wild dogs and pigs are all you'll ever have to shoot.

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www.tennessean.com/...gun-free-zone.../78862948/

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiRi7brg7rKAhVD6yYKHZcXDS8QFggrMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tennessean.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F2016%2F01%2F15%2Fbill-allows-suits-over-gun-free-zone-incidents%2F78862948%2F&usg=AFQjCNHIR6GyQ5Qo2qpHRSMei2RupvgQuQ

 

Trying to get a link to work about Tennessee bill introduced last Friday that allows people and their families who can legally carry to sue property owners who post gun free zones and the person his injured on the property who might not have been had they been armed.

 

I'm thinking BSA in Tennessee might be forced to reconsider it's policy if this legislation goes through.

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From across the pond, I've read this thread with bemusement and incredulity*, and you're all making the USA sound very dangerous!  I'm not judging, if you consider carrying a gun necessary, you're the best judge of that not me.

 

* But that's only because I'm looking at it from this end, in a country where handguns are illegal, the police don't routinely carry, and the only bears are in zoos. Definitely not trying to start an argument!

 

Ian

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Ian,

 

We have our criminal element, but the vast majority of the armed people in America are the law abiding people who only want the Constitutionally guarantee of self protection from whatever threatens. 

 

It always reminds me of the Jessie James Gang.  They thought it would be easy pickings to rob a bank in small town, back woods Minnesota.  We're not talking about the wild west here, Minnesota was subsistence farming at that time.  Well, the raid didn't go well and the citizens of Northfield, Minnesota shot up the gang so badly that half were captured and the other half limped away licking their wounds.  Whatever they got didn't come from the bank and what they did get I'm sure they didn't think it was worth it.

 

I'm thinking that in a large shopping mall with an active shooter, if I have to draw my gun, it is comforting to note there may be a handful of other armed conceal carry "gun-nuts" out there to help and I don't have to worry about the unarmed bobbies coming to my rescue getting there on time.  We live in two different worlds.  :)

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