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Green Bar Bill Excluded from National Scouting Museum


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"At our local Council's summer camp, the new Scout program is known as the Green Bar Bill program. The shelter in which it is taught is known in that way as well."

 

In the tradition of developers who name their streets after the eco-systems they pave over ("Quail Run"). :)

 

In Green Bar Bill's version of the Methods of Scouting, Advancement was only a subset of the "Activities" Method:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/4th.htm

 

In other words, the mastery of Scoutcraft was a series of "Activities" to do under a competent Patrol Leader on monthly Patrol Hikes for a couple of years (as opposed to five days with a summer school summer camp counselor).

 

In fairness to the National Boy Scout Museum, it would be hard to design a diorama depicting the two million Boy Scouts who streamed out of the BSA when we replaced Green Bar Bill's "Real" Patrol Method with Leadership Development (or the millions who stay away because Wood Badge continues to replace Patrol Adventure with six-month "Positions of Responsibility").

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

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SP   How about two animatronic figures one of Kudu and one of Mazzucca in an all out cage match, throwing scouting program opinions back and forth at each other, in full uniform of course. Just kid

Right now, I'm willing to bet 75%+ of the folks at national became DEs in the Improved Scouting Program period. Maybe, just maybe, with the new generation of national leaders who became DEs in the 9th

In regard to Scout Stuff, the book just out. Got it with an Amazon gift cert, and went through it a bit. There may be a photo of Green Bar Bill in the section on Woodbadge at Schiff. They have a photo of the first course, and I believe the scouter leaning over the fire is Bill. But, not certain. Maybe another of you with the book can take a look.

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There is mention William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt on page 120. Talks about his writing the book, Baden-Powell, The Two Lives of a Hero.

 

Page 210, National Training Centers and Wood Badge, just speaks a bit about the first Course, and some of the Wood Badge regalia, and items.

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Is someone freezing access to this forum? I spent about three hours today attempting to share it with a visiting Scouter. Each time I entered the search criteria (either SPL576 or Green Bar Bill Hillcourt), I was dumped off the site. It is starting to look as if Green Bar Bill is now officially a "non-person" when a search for his name dumps you off the site. I'm in the process of teaching a Patrol Leader Training Course using all Green Bar Bill's materials. The Scouts are going wild over it. No theory...just plain hands on application.

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This is really appalling. I too was a victim of "Improved Scouting", crossing over from Webelos in 1975. The Scout Troop had no adult supervision and severely declining numbers-- I never went beyond Tenderfoot.

 

My Dad and older brothers had the manuals by GBB. My favorites are still the Scout Masters Hand Book (1967 printing) and the "Fieldbook for Boys and Men" (also 1967)-- I still read them. So much valuable, useful information! Though I never went beyond Tenderfoot in an organized troop, I pored over those old manuals and practiced the skills for years as a kid. (Having a Dad who was a forester helped, too).

 

My old "Improved Scouting" manual got tossed years ago...

 

-Scott

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WoodBadge did it!

Blame WB21C!

 

If true.

 

What will Scouting look like in 2031?

No dirt.

No mud.

No smoke.

No fires.

No crushing the bugs with your tent.

No loud voices?

No risky games.

No running.

No blades.

No climbing.

No falling.

No swimming.

No bathing?

 

No boys...

I agree. The idea of letting boys build themselves into men is frowned upon in today's culture of Scouting. Making ethical and moral decisions comes from building character, and so many in the 21st Century Woodbadge think are out-of-shape marshmallows who do this fruity "Happy Gilwell" dance. Any of you who have seen it know what I'm talking about. Even Scouting's current premier youth training, NYLT, no longer uses terms like "Senior Patrol Leader" - or even "Troop" and "Patrol". What genius thought of that?
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WoodBadge did it!

Blame WB21C!

 

If true.

 

What will Scouting look like in 2031?

No dirt.

No mud.

No smoke.

No fires.

No crushing the bugs with your tent.

No loud voices?

No risky games.

No running.

No blades.

No climbing.

No falling.

No swimming.

No bathing?

 

No boys...

Eagle Nebula M16 commented:

 

"Even Scouting's current premier youth training, NYLT, no longer uses terms like "Senior Patrol Leader" - or even "Troop" and "Patrol". What genius thought of that? "

 

Program Neutering: Use of the term "Patrol Method" to refer to "leadership development" theory, for which the Patrol Leader and independent Patrol activities have been surgically removed.

 

The last time I staffed Scoutmaster specific training, the term "Patrol Leader" and any description of a working Patrol had been cut from the "Patrol Method" presentation, and replaced with EDGE.

 

To answer your question, the genius was John Larson, the father of modern Wood Badge. For an account of Wood Badge's destruction of the Patrol Method (from leadership development's point of view), see "1966" at:

 

http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html

 

"Some professional and volunteers at the National BSA Council were very resistant to the idea of changing the focus of Wood Badge from training leaders in Scoutcraft to leadership skills. Among them was Bill Hillcourt, who had been the first United States Wood Badge Course Director in 1948. Although he had officially retired on August 1, 1965, his opinion was still sought after and respected.

 

"Larson later reported, 'He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right.' Hillcourt presented an alternative to Larson's plan to incorporate leadership into Wood Badge. Chief Scout Brunton asked Larson to look at Hillcourt's plan, and Larson reported back that it was the same stuff, just reordered and rewritten. Larson's plan for Wood Badge was approved and he moved ahead to begin testing the proposed changes. The program was designed and written by Bánáthy, Perin, and Larson."

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net/patrol/

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I came back into Scouting as an adult in 77 and experienced the "Urban Scouting" era. It was possible to get Eagle without ever going camping. I was so glad when Green Bar Bill introduced the new handbook. I wasn't aware that Woodbadge was originally a Scoutcraft training course. I went through it in 78 on a Walking Wood Badge course and while it was leadership oriented it was done outdoors. All the way into the 80's and maybe 90's I had some of my leaders go through the Course and it was still conducted in a camping setting. This new course where you sleep inside and watch power point presentations is just another example of how they have gone back the other way taking the "outing" out of Scouting. The new Eagle project requirements, or lack of as they are, are horrible.

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WoodBadge did it!

Blame WB21C!

 

If true.

 

What will Scouting look like in 2031?

No dirt.

No mud.

No smoke.

No fires.

No crushing the bugs with your tent.

No loud voices?

No risky games.

No running.

No blades.

No climbing.

No falling.

No swimming.

No bathing?

 

No boys...

Hmmm, I figured they dropped the Patrol references in NYLT when they added Venturing youth to the program last year. At least that's when it changed in our Council course.
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Yep. I've been to the National Museum several times and Green Bar Bill is no where to be found. He must have really hacked off the wrong people. Sad. I joined scouting in 1973 and I guess our SM and ASM did not get the memo from National that the program had been "modernized." We kept doing the patrol method, regular primitive camping, hiking, outdoor skills, and all of that fun stuff. The 1972 edition of the Scout Handbook I had was a dumbed-down sorry version of the prior version it replaced. Interesting to note that the Camping MB that I earned during this time was not Eagle required and it does not have the distinguishing silver border around it.

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WoodBadge did it!

Blame WB21C!

 

If true.

 

What will Scouting look like in 2031?

No dirt.

No mud.

No smoke.

No fires.

No crushing the bugs with your tent.

No loud voices?

No risky games.

No running.

No blades.

No climbing.

No falling.

No swimming.

No bathing?

 

No boys...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

dcsimmons commented:

"Hmmm, I figured they dropped the Patrol references in NYLT when they added Venturing youth to the program last year"

 

Use your words, dcsimmons!

"Hmmm, they program neutered Green Bar Bill's Patrol Leader Training when they added Venturing youth to the program."

"Hmmm, they program neutered Green Bar Bill's Wood Badge when they added Cub Scout Leaders to the program."

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