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Co-ed Crew – Co-ed Leadership?

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I am the new UC for a Venturing Crew.

They have been around for 3 or 4 years.


In looking over their charter they are a co-ed crew but do not have co-ed leadership.

During my Venturing Leaders training it was always stated that co-ed crews need co-ed leadership.


Ive looked through the all the documents I have about Venturing and dont see this written anywhere (but perhaps I missed it).


The only thing close is that the Guide to Safe Scouting says that co-ed overnighters need co-ed leadership.


This crew only gets together 2x a month to do there thing (shooting) and as far as I have seen does not do any overnights nor ever plans to do any.


The council chartered this crew and re- chartered this crew for a few years now without co-ed leadership.


Where in the BSA literature does it say co-ed crews need co-ed leadership?

Or is this just another urban myth?


Is this a YPT issue that should be brought up?

Or is this a non-issue since our council re-charters every year?


As a new UC I dont want to come in and tell them they are doing it wrong but this is a possible YPT issue

I have enough other problems to deal with this unit (the mandatory training) without raising another issue with them right away.



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When the Ship I serve first started we only had male leaders. The Sea Scouts were both male and female.

We did when we went away overnight take a female with us either a parent or a female from another unit.

There is no requirement on the charter that states crews that are co-ed have to have co-ed leadership.

If I were you I wouldn't go there.


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Our local venturing crew is not co-ed chartered either. There is no requirement as I understand it. YPT has nothing to do with chartering / rechartering (other than to prove the leaders have taken it). YPT only applies to trips, camps, meetings, etc. On these activities, you need to have the right number and type of adult leaders. You will need co-ed leaders if you camp as a co-ed group. Whoever signs off on the Venturing paperwork is not a YPT issue.

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You will not find a reference that a Co-Ed Crew needs a Co-Ed Adult Leadership team because it does not exist. Well, let me say I have looked and looked and have not found anything other than the odd quote from "thems who are supposed to know", that a Co-ed Crew needs Co-Ed adult leadership. Of course on overnights you do need to follow the G2SS but as far as adult leadership goes, no Co-Ed requiretment may be found


Would welcome any proof otherwise

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I can tell you with over 7 years as a coed crew Advisor that your situation is a little unusual, but it is not a requirement. In my own crew the ladies love to be more the movers and shakers than the guys and we have always had at least two or more female associate advisors in our crew. As long as you meet Venturing YPT standards on your outings it is not a problem, but as UC I would encourage you to have a friendly talk to the crew leadership about the advantages of having a female associate advisor. I doubt the DE would be much help and the crew leaders might get the impression you are telling tales about them to council, if this crew is 4 years old it must be doing something right. Good luck.

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Thanks for the correct answer - there is no requirement for Co-Ed leadership.


This crew is going to be tough to handle.

When I called the Crew Advisor to arrange a visit he told me that I couldn't visit the unit unless he was going to be there.

He then told me that he was being deployed to Afghanistan (he's Navy Reserve) for the next year!


He wasn't real happy when I said that wasn't an option and I would be visiting.


No trained leaders and they are refusing to take any type of training.

I was told by the Advisor if I said anything about manditory training (or any of the other Scouting paperwork) to them they would be dropping the Scouting program.

They refuse to sell popcorn and do a FOS presentation.


My son used to shoot with this crew 2 years ago.

He became bored after only a few months of doing only one thing.

This crew has gone from 40 registered youth when my son wentto 8 last year


About the only thing this unit is doing is beiong a number for our DE.



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Wow I wished you had mentioned those things earlier, something seems to be fishy and maybe it would be a good idea to have the DE talk to the advisor about mandatory training,etc, that way he's the bad guy not you. So the DE can use the council authority to investigate to see if there are YPT and GSS violations taking place and force them to straighten up or pull their charter, when all the smoke clears then you can come in like the crews best friend and help them get back on the straight and narrow.

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I also have never heard of a co-ed leadership requirement, beyond the excursion and camping G2SS requirements. It sounds like a Venturing Urban Legend.


Regarding mandatory training. That term seems to be an unenthusiastic term used more by Scouters, and carries a negative and time consuming implication. BSA has called it Fundamentals Basic and Essentials, at least using those terms, the training still has the same definition as mandatory, but hopefully less offensive.


Unfortunately, no BSA unit has to conduct FOS or conduct a unit/council fund raiser; they will just miss out on a few opportunities. But unit leaders (of any Pack, Troop, Crew) do have to meet the absolute minimum amount of safety training, based on their events. If a unit does not meet the absolute minimum, they obviously do not have any program and are not really a BSA unit. They seem to be choosing for themselves to lose their charter.


It would be disappointing to lose a unit, but even more disappointing to keep a risk taking group of adults and youth together under the title of a BSA unit.


As a Commissioner, you cannot make a unit leadership do anything (against their will). You can let them know your experiences and credentials, and that you have direct advice on how to make their unit an even more successful BSA unit (to win their hearts and minds).


Good Luck with your Unit Commissioner duties!


Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

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I have a co-ed crew, but no registered female leaders, never have.


I've held no FOS nor had any BSA fundraisers.


The UC (if there is one) never has contacted us... ever. Our DE has come to one of our events since we started. Our re-chartering kit is picked up at the council office because the DE lives a long way from where the crew meets.


We have been successfully operational now for 10 years and have more in our treasury than our chartering organization.


We have two trained leaders.



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Not that I'd ever want to tell anyone what they should be doing!!

Could it be that you might be talking to the wrong person?

Maybe a word with the Executive Officer (IH) might be a good idea?

I can sorta, kinda understand why a group that only wants to shoot might not feel that BSA training's are really their cup of tea.

If however the Council has made training mandatory? Then it's mandatory.

I think maybe if I were the U/C I'd be happy to pass this one on and let the Key 3 deal with it. My thinking being that maybe the District needs them (The Crew) more than they might need the District.

Sometimes doing nothing and passing the buck is the thing to do.


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Thanks for all the Advice so far.


The one person I was told by the Advisor I should absolutely not discuss the mandatory training (our council is one of the pilot councils for training) or any other Scouting paperwork with was the IH.

The Advisor brought the training requirements up with the Crew adult Leadership and the CO and was met with resistance.


Outside of the co-ed leadership question (which isnt an issue) I dont really see any YPT nor safety issues with this unit. All the adults working with the youth are NRA certified instructors just none are willing to even take BSA YPT.


There has been a lot discussion about this Crew at the District level.

Most of the District people think that this unit should have never been chartered as a crew and was better suited as an Explorer Post (or not chartered at all).

This crew was started by our previous DE whos only concern was to start as many units as he could any way he could.


Our new Council Commissioner has been pushing our Commissioners Service in three areas one being unit visits the 2nd is getting unit Leadership trained and the 3rd is getting more leaders signed.


There is another thing that I am not sure with this unit is the Advisor leaving for a year. He is the only one that has had any type of training (all Boy Scout) and wont be around.

Any suggestions about this?


They meet again this Saturday morning. Right now my plan is show up, introduce myself and offer them assistance if they want it.


I think this unit needs to be discussed at the next District Committee meeting.







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1) I think you and your DE (or your DC/ADC) need to pay that "Annual Service Call" on this Crews' IH/COR. No matter what the Advisor says, there are things which are charter related. In your Council, training of direct contact leaders is charter related. Explain to the IH/COR that unit visits are part of Scoutings' service to the charter agreement!


2) That said, the UC is supposed to be a friend of the unit. If the principal direct contact leader (Advisor) doesn't want you around, it's time to kick the visitation level up a notch ... to your ADC or even the DC. Maybe you're just not a fit for the unit. Lord knows I've seen that happen in my District often enough.


3) If this unit is conducting business in such a way that activities are not safe, then your DE has to decide is this charter worth the effort? That decision belongs to him, his FD, and the SE. What your Council does not need is a rogue unit which risks a lawsuit (and the defense costs, and that first $M of self-insurance from the liability) against the chartered partner and the Council after something bad happens.


4) OTOH, if the unit is conducting safe operations, then maybe best to let the sleeping dog lie.


5) As others have said, no requirement for the unit to have co-ed leadership. G2SS has requirements for activities (particularly overnights), but not a charter requirement. Now, while as Oak Tree says, co-ed leadership is part of the self-assessment, it's not part of the centennial quality contract:



It's all a judgment call ... work with your ADC/DC on this. I'd specifically not recommend talking about this unit in public at District Committee. This is time for quiet, businesslike conversations over coffee, brainstorming an approach that might work.

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