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Two Deep Leadership: 2 Units - same 2nd Leader

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In Oct. there is a Venturing Event in a council near us.


Back in the spring when I first found out about this event I presented it to the Ship members to see if they were interested in attending.

The youth wanted to attend but no other adult was willing to go.


Shortly after this I received an email from a parent saying that she thought the Ship should no longer do any trips or overnights and only meet and do weekly sailing.


It also seems that the parents didnt want a youth-run program but one that had every thing done for their kids (and not by them either, they expected me to do everything).


After not being able to do 2 trips this spring because no other adult Leader/parent was willing to attend it looked like it had been pretty much decided that the Ship wasnt going to be doing any more overnight activities or trips.

My son came to me and said that if all the ship was going to do was meet and sail he wasnt interested and could he check out other crews in the area.

I couldnt agree more and because of this and other issues (and I have a son in Cubs this fall) in June I stepped down as Skipper.


Currently I am not a registered Leader with the Ship, but my son is still a member.

Due him being on staff for summer camp and football he hasnt been to a meeting since June and wont be able to attend another meeting until after Football is over around Nov. 1.


Earlier this year my son hit it off with a Venturer (he always seemed to be at the same events/training/meetings we went to) who was going to be on staff with him at camp this summer and after meeting with the crew he belonged too my son asked if we could to start attending their meetings.

They are going to attend the same Venturing event in Oct. and asked if he wanted to go with them.

The Crew Advisor asked if I was interested going with this crew, to meet the two-deep leadership, as the usual leaders/parents that attend had scheduling conflicts, since it seemed the ship wasnt going I agreed.


Last week I got a call from the new Skipper asking if I could go to the event.

It now seems that another parent (and committee member) said they would go to this but they needed a second adult to go.

I told them I had already agreed to go with another unit as a leader and they needed to find someone else.


Last night I got another call from the Skipper saying that they had contacted the person running the event and this person had told them that I could go as the second leader for both units and that as long as I was in camp this wasnt a problem.


This just doesnt seem right to me.

What would be the BSA policy on this?


Dont suggest combining the units.

If the Ship wants to do this its up to them to contact the other Crew going to work this out. They are aware hat this is an option.


Personally, I have a problem doing this as the Ship has gotten new youth members since I stepped down.

None of the new members parents have signed on as leaders or are willing to go.

Either are any of the CO members who are Mates or Committee members.



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If yeh aren't going to be in the same campsite on a joint outing, I can see where you'd be uncomfortable with it, eh?


I think you are right to say "no." Yeh made a prior commitment, and you should stick with it and not try to split your time and attention.


Often in such cases a commissioner or another adult from the district or event planning team can step forward to serve as a second adult for your old ship. If they take the time to ask.




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I'd say no too. Just because some paper pusher from the district says it is ok (no doubt in order to improve attendance and the bottom line) does not mean it makes sense. Your instincts seem to be right on here.


Maybe you can offer the new leader a friendly suggestion that he call the unit's UC or the district training staff to try to scare up a second adult who could legitimately attend with the unit in question.



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Even if the units were right next to each other, CNYScouter would have to agree to be the second leader for BOTH units. If in name (or on paperwork) only, then it's really not two deep leadership. He would really have to somehow split his time between the two units. I don't see this as being fair to him or to the new unit that he agreed to go with. I think that joining the two units for this outing (such that they are registering to attend together) would be the only way to make this happen. But as CNYScouter says, "its up to them to contact the other Crew going to work this out".


CNYScouter, go and have a great time! The Ship made up its collective mind which is what has driven you to step-down as Skipper and has driven your son to seek a new unit. I've been in this position, it's hard to know the former unit is suffering because you are not there, but it's not your fault or your doing. Go have a great time with your son and his potential new unit.


ASM59(This message has been edited by ASM59)

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Thanks for the replies.


This in now a non-issue as the parent that was going with the Ship has now backed out.


jblake47 wrote:

...and where was the new skipper of the old ship when you needed a second leader? Kinda makes one wonder what kinds of games are being played out here.


The person who is now the Skipper was the Mate (asst. Advisor) when I was Skipper.

She is in her 60's, a memebr of the CO, an empty nester and does not have a child in the Ship.

In the spring she decided that she would no longer go on any of our trips and expected the parents to step up but none were willing but me.


I see a lot of this happening with the Venturing Crews in the area.

There are plenty of people will to help with the Crew specialty (sailing, shooting, golf, etc.) but when it comes to doing the Scouting side they want nothing to do with it.


The Ship has more people than it could use when the weather got nice and would help out with sailing but they would disappear all winter to help keep things going.


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