CNYScouter 46 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 The farther I get into this the more questions I have. It seems that because the Sea Scouts are now under the Venturing Program they have taken more of the Venturing side of things and less of the Sea Scout side. My DE has even gone as far as calling the Ship a Sea Scout Venturing Crew. It would seem to me that a Sea Scout Ship uses the program outlined in the Sea Scout Manual and not the Venturing Program A Sea Scout Ship would work on Sea Scout Advancement and ranks A Sea Scout Ship would wear the Sea Scout Uniforms. If you are not using the Sea Scout Program, ranks and uniform, arent you just a Venturing crew and not a Sea Scout Ship? Where do you draw the line in what is a Sea Scout Ship and what is a Venturing Crew? So, who makes the decision to use the Sea Scout Program? The CO, the adults putting it together, the youth, a combination of these? Link to post Share on other sites
LongHaul 10 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 CNYScouter, WOW! You ask tough questions, what are you an educator? Unraveling your question isn't as easy as it should be. Starting with the CO; the CO either applies to charter a Ship or a Crew that is written out on the Charter application. Yes they could apply to charter a Crew and still use the Sea Scout Advancement IN SOME COUNCILS. The difference is whether your Council has a specific Sea Scouting Professional Advisor. The Program to be delivered is up to the CO as with any Scout Unit, the CO sets the guidelines. Because this is a new unit, it would make the most sense if the CO chose the Program the Youth wanted to participate in but they don't actually have to, a local Yacht Club may look upon a Sea Scout Ship differently than a Venturing Crew. Now lets look at the third part of your question which dealt with the adults working with the youth. You asked; So, who makes the decision to use the Sea Scout Program? The CO, the adults putting it together, the youth, a combination of these? The decision on which program is the CO's, the decision to participate is the youth's. The adults are there to advise both the CO and the youth but should not have a vote. When the adults develop a vision of what the adults want the program to be, the adults often assume the leadership/directorial roles to make that vision a reality. Boy run takes time, it's also harder to achieve if the boys are used to adult run. LongHaul (This message has been edited by LongHaul) Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Lest we forget... Be it a ship, be it a crew, it's youth led, not boy run. The implications of the method are even greater responsibility to the members and the Coed option!!! Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Sea Scouts are a program within Venturing. Because of this, every Sea Scout Ship is a Venturing Crew, every Sea Scout is a Venturer, and every Sea Scout adult leader is a Venturing leader. Every Sea Scout can earn all the Venturing awards in addition to the Sea Scout awards. Every Sea Scout adult goes thru the same training as all the other Venturing adults, but they ALSO have their own training. That said, its NOT proper to call Ships 'Crews'. It doesn't go the other way. What defines a Venturing Crew to be a "Sea Scout Ship" is that they are registered as such: specialty code 1208. If you want to use the Sea Scout program, then register as such. If you just want an 'aquatics' Venturing crew and not bother with the Sea Scout program, don't be a Ship. MOST Sea Scout ships will use the Sea Scout uniform and use the Sea Scout advancement program. some do not. Who makes this decision? Typically its the CO & adults organizing it. They tell the kids they are recruiting that "you are joining a Sea Scout Ship". Thus, if they don't want to be in a Ship, they can go join a Crew. Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 "Some Sea Scout Ships prefer to plan their program around some specialty such as sailing, careers, scuba diving, or an aquatic sport. They may not utilize Sea Scout uniforms and advancement but offer a flexible program to those young adults having a specific career or hobby interest" http://www.seascout.org/about/getting_started/how_to_organize_a_ship.html While LongHaul is technically correct about the CO and the Ship following a program that is in line with what the CO wants. The program is going to fall flat on it's face if the youth don't want to participate. We need to remember the vision and mission of the BSA. We as adults are trying to make the vision and mission come to life and are using the programs to do so. Sea Scouting is very different on the West Coast than it is where I am in the Northeast. We tend to be more about small boats and sailing , while they have bigger boats and might be closer to Naval traditions. I don't know but maybe in Florida the Sea Scouts are more into scuba than we are. The idea is that we match the program to the interests of the youth. At this time the Sea Scouts in the Ship I'm in happen to like the uniforms and seem to be interested in following the Sea Scout Advancements. We have attended gatherings where there have been Ships that have decided not to use the uniforms and not follow the advancement program. I don't know what they do -But they seem happy doing it. Eamonn. Link to post Share on other sites
LongHaul 10 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 John-in-KC, Sir you are 100% absolutely correct. Boy led is an archaic term and no longer has a place in our program as it has become, on many fronts, a coed program. Sometimes us old goats fall back on the past but in this instance the correction is well deserved. I was after all giving comment on a program which is definitely coed in nature and "youth led" should have been my terminology. Emb021, Correct you are but in this case CNYScouter is trying to form a new unit and is worried about having enough youth to charter a unit. Allowing the youth to come to an agreement with the CO would make more sense than having the CO and Adults issue a decision which the youth would participate in. LongHaul Link to post Share on other sites
Kahuna 172 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Your DE should be flogged around the fleet. Although, Sea Scouts are part of Venturing, we are not "Sea Scout Venturing Crews." It is possible to have a Sea Scout Ship that's into scuba, marine biology, etc, and not follow the advancement plan or wear the uniform, but there would be no difference between that and a Venture Crew. Who decides? You do, along with the CO. The youth run the program, decide what uniforms to wear and (probably) whether to follow the advancement programs or not. I agree with the others who have said that the founders and the CO of the unit have to be able to tell the youth they are joining this kind of group or that kind. Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 "I don't know but maybe in Florida the Sea Scouts are more into scuba than we are. " In Florida, we do have some "Scuba Ships". They ARE Sea Scout Ships, tho. They use the program, uniform, advancement. They just spend more time with scuba then the average ship. But they also boat and sail. How 'traditional' a Ship is will vary. I know some ships down here who have all the youth in white crackerjacks. Others will instead have them in whites more like the adults wear. Others may create their own uniform. BUT, they follow the program (sail & boat and work on advancement). Link to post Share on other sites
CNYScouter 46 Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 Actually flogging wont be enough as the DE used the term Sea Scout Venture Crew. I think we will leave the punishment up to emb021! These threads have been helpful and given me lots to think about. A couple of comments before I am off to the Ships organizational meeting tonight. The whole Ship vs. Crew debate is something to really think about. Its just I didnt spend 7 months looking for a CO for a Sea Scout Ship and then finding one that owns boats and sails and then chartering a Venturing Crew. That doesnt make any sense to me. If I was going to starting up a Venturing Crew I have organizations much closer to me and that can offer a year-round place to meet. But I am also concerned as LongHaul said, that if I want to start a Sea Scout Ship that follows the Sea Scout program, does the Sea Scout Advancement, wears the uniform but the youth arent interested it wont work either. I also need to throw in that even though the military cant charter a unit, they can assist one. The Naval Reserve Center here has said that if I can get a Ship going they would like to be involved. I was told they would supply uniforms (for little cost or free) and allow us to use the Center to meet during the winter months. I have to think they wont be interested if we are not using the Sea Scout advancement and not going to using the Sea Scout uniform. Lots of things to consider. We are hoping at the meeting tonight that enough people and youth are interested from the Club and the people Ive talked with that we can get the minimum number to charter the Ship. Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Mr CNYScouter... Hands-on access to a pool of potential recruits, in the target age for advertising and enlistments? Heck, yes, the Naval Reserve will be DELIGHTED to have clean-cut, enlistment-eligible teens in the building. Expect those who work with the youth to be talking about opportunities in the US Armed Forces. I know the Army Reserve would! Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Some time back in the Sea Scout forum there was a posting from a leader who said that the members of his ship had opted to wear Hawaiian style Shirts. I can't see any reason why the wouldn't. But just as some Boy Scout Troops get known for being good at some specific activity, I think over time the same happens to Crews and Ships. If the Ship becomes known for following the Sea Scout Advancements and is seen wearing the uniforms. The youth that don't like that sort of thing are more than lightly not going to join anyway. Of course the good thing is that the Sea Scout uniforms are so much cheaper than the BSA Scout Stuff uniforms. We have an account with the Navy. We are buying working uniforms direct from the manufacturer and use Ship's Stores. All of our Sea Scouts have the working uniform and most have whites, those that don't are really making the effort to get them, they decided that they want to look good for the up-coming regatta. They are finding things that they want to participate in and a lot of these things have a Sea Scout uniform requirement. Most of them have now made Apprentice a couple are close to Able. But the big thing is that this is what they wanted to do. Eamonn. Link to post Share on other sites
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