What Venturing Is and isnt

[Proud Eagle 13]

I suppose my greatest hang up about Venturing is a complete and total lack of anything even vaguely like a "patrol". The patrol is the fundamental unit of all Scouting and as such is the basic unit of the BSA. Troops are groups of patrols. When a younger boys program was needed they again drew on the patrol model and created Cub Scout Dens. These are grouped into Packs, though in a much different way than patrols are grouped into troops. In the Varsity Scout program the basic unit is the Squad. I don't know enough about Sea Scouting to know if it had such a basic unit bellow the Ship, but I suspect it once did or perhaps still does.

 

Venturing on the other hand does not make any use of the "patrol" or anyting vaguely like it. Or perhaps it does. I guess if you really do have a specialised Crew with some focused interest you will probably have a relatively small size group of people who are really wanting to be involved in stuff focused on that interest. So then maybe it does look a bit like a patrol, but at the Crew level. However, the really large Crews seem to be trying to become multi-function, non-specialised Crews, and are trying to find ways to create sub-groups to focus on particular things. I find it interesting that the patrol is forcing itself into Venturing even though Venturing was designed without the patrol.

 

While I can't and won't say that the patrol is the best way of organizing a youth organization, it is the way to organize Scouting. There will always be some of us that will see Venturing as a competing organization, because, well, it isn't Scouting. That isn't to say it is bad. Venturing is in fact a very good program. However, that doesn't make it Scouting. Can a Venturing Crew be run in a way that would make it be Scouting at work? Yes it can be, but many seem to choose not to. That is fine by me. After all choices to design your own program is part of what Venturing sells itself on. Just don't be suprised if there are a few of us that supporting Venturing, but only after we do our part supporting Scouting.

 

As I see it their are 4 Scouting programs in BSA:

Cub Scouting

Boy Scouting

Varsity Scouting

Sea Scouting (when run in a traditional manner)

 

Then there is Venturing, which is based on BSA's values and some of the historical programs. It is not, however, Scouting. Yet it is fully a part of the BSA family of programs.

 

Then there is Learning for Life, a totally seperate corporation that sub-contracts to BSA for administration and such. Its programs are not grounded in Scouting's traditional values, though it does embrace ethics. The LFL program includes the Explorer program.

 

That about sums it up I think.

[TheScout 10]

I guess the thing that I dont get is, if Venturing represents a totally different business or concept, then why does the BSA even bother with it. Why doesnt it just use its resources to focus on what it is good at and what it is famous for: building a great scouting program, the core being the Boy Scout troop, to help make young men better citizens.

 

BSA should focus on a quality scouting program. This will make more boys be involved in the future.

 

[TheScout 10]

I guess the thing that I dont get is, if Venturing represents a totally different business or concept, then why does the BSA even bother with it. Why doesnt it just use its resources to focus on what it is good at and what it is famous for: building a great scouting program, the core being the Boy Scout troop, to help make young men better citizens.

 

BSA should focus on a quality scouting program. This will make more boys be involved in the future.

 

[TheScout 10]

I guess the thing that I dont get is, if Venturing represents a totally different business or concept, then why does the BSA even bother with it. Why doesnt it just use its resources to focus on what it is good at and what it is famous for: building a great scouting program, the core being the Boy Scout troop, to help make young men better citizens.

 

BSA should focus on a quality scouting program. This will make more boys be involved in the future.

 

[cristipdx 10]

In my opinion, Venturing truly _is_ Scouting but on steroids, so to speak.

 

It's built on a leadership team that develops and runs program, same as a patrol leaders council. It's built on outdoor/specialty program, same as a troop. It's got the emphasis on a crew, which is the same as a patrol, and if the crew (or ship) is big enough, it typically breaks down into patrol sized groups. In a ship, traditional program is built around rank advancement, just like in a troop. In a Venturing crew, it's based on experiences, and if it's done well, the advancement/awards program happens without even thinking about it, just like a troop.

 

There is a LOT of crossover from other Boy Scouts of America programming, it's just not labeled the same.

 

In addition, the emphasis on the youth leadership is much, much heavier than in a troop. This concept is very foreign to the majority of traditional scouters.

 

A successful crew may or may not build a legacy of long term existence. That seems to be a matter of long range or short range vision.

 

Venturing meets the needs of teens that may not ever be attracted to a traditional scout unit. It's a hybrid... much like today's new electric/gas cars. It's not a standard, but it's definitely an attractive option.

 

Bottomline, if you ask the YOUTH what they way, the answer is control of their program. If you ask the adults, it's not the same view of the planet, now is it?

 

Most "adults" have issues with allowing teenagers to be in control. We'll let 'em have cars, let 'em go off to serve in the military, and we'll even let 'em vote... but can we get out of their way to let them run _their_ program? (along with allowing the consequences of poorly managed program happen?)

[BadenP 93]

Scout

 

I do not understand your hostility towards Venturing. For the most part it brings older youth to and back to scouting that have dropped out or never been involved before. Another reason is because it is coed it opens up scouting to females, like Sea Scouts and Career Explorer posts already do, and that helps keep older boys involved. Boy Scouts have been losing numbers steadily for more than twenty years now and we have already discussed the reasons why, not delivering a quality program being the main one.

 

Venturing opens some new horizons for recruiting new and older teens, it never was or is competition for troops. Venture patrols that you talked about in another thread have nothing to do with Venturing, but are part of the boy scout program. It is not an issue of diverting resources but one of creating a program to bring new older teens, male and female, that appeals to the teen culture of today. If Venturing is on the right track it will be successful. Do you feel career Explorer posts and Sea Scouts are a waste of resources as well? Those programs are where most of the older boy scouts move up to if they leave the troop. Instead of taking pot shots at a program you personally dislike try seeing the bigger picture of what these other programs bring to scouting which is an outreach organization for youth.

[Bob White 20]

Actually proud eagle a re-visit to New Leader essentials may be in order. Without rying to do the entire chapter here let me try to clarify.

 

There are in fact three Scouting Programs, what we call "Traditional" Scouting. It includes Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting (which includes Varsity), and Venturing (which includes Sea Scouting).

 

The Den, Patrol, and Crew, share similarities and have differences. Each is designed to meet the social needs and abilities of a youth at various stages of development. An 8 year old would not be successful in a boy lead patrol, nor would they survive a larger fluctuating group like a crew. In the same manner a Youth in the late teens or early twenties no longer socializes with one set group for every activity. Like most adults thaey are capable of intersctinting in a variety of group sizes and make-up depending on the activity.

 

These are not new concepts to scouting. To say that Venturing is complertely different from exploring is not accurate. It has some unique features but also borrows greatly on many of the features of both early and and later exploring programs and Sea Scouts has changed only slightly.

 

So Venturing does not depend on patrols because youth of that age broup are capable of handling a more complex social environmemnt. depending on the size of the crew and the specific activity temporary 'patrols' may form. Just as adults drop in and out of subgroups for various work and social functions rather than doing everything with ones set group of 6 to 10 people. Also as we mature and have opportunities to practice leadership skill we find the ability to lead larger groups and more complex tasks than patrols and dens are designed for.

 

Remember that there are three sets of scouting methods, one for each of the three programs. They are not indentical because the needs and abilities of the youth at differing stages of development are not identical.

 

"Then there is Learning for Life, a totally seperate corporation that sub-contracts to BSA for administration and such. Its programs are not grounded in Scouting's traditional values, though it does embrace ethics. The LFL program includes the Explorer program.

 

That's close. LFL is a subsidiary of the BSA, it is actually owned by BSA publications, the folks who briing you Boys' Life and Scouting magazine. It is the "non-traditional" program affiliate. It was designed as a response to Explorer Posts being forced from some COs due to conflicts from the BSA membership requirements, and to provide a way for the BSa to continue to bring ethical training into schools where many youth had little interest in "scouting" but had need for the ethical instruction scouting could provide.

 

 

Again, I do not know if you have had the opportunity to attend new Leader Essentials but you might find it helpful in understanding the need for the three levels of the program.

 

BW

 

 

 

 

 

[TheScout 10]

BP,

 

I apologize if my words make it seem like I have a hostility towards Venturing. This is certainly not the case.

 

I also do not believe I am taking pot shots at the program, I stated the reasons that I do not think it is a good program for the BSA and I explained what I thought they should do again to keep older scouts involved. You or others may not appreciate my thoughts, and that is your right.

 

To answer your message. I think that the Boy Scout Troop system if properly run with an advanced Venture Patrol program can keep older scouts involved and benefit from their experience. I now Venture Patrols and Crews are not related, but I think some of the ideas from the Crews could be used to make the Patrols better and more appealing. I would contest your assertion that Venturing opens up scouting to girls, the GSUSA has been doing that for decades.

 

In the experience around my area, Venturing does compete with troops for scouts, many of who do not fully dedicate themselves to either one.

 

Finally, I am not opposed to Sea Scouts or Exploring. Both of these programs have served the BSA well for decades and should be kept as is. (I was not a big fan of the reforms of the Exploring/Venturing program in 1998, I would have left Exploring as is).

 

I am saying this out of love, not hostility. I think the BSA is one of the finest organizations in America and does amazing things for young men, as it did for me as a scout. Maybe I am just old fashioned, but In my humble opinion I dont think this is a good direction for the BSA to be heading.

 

Best Regards.