Scouting Great For Boys - Treats Employees Badly

[SeaEagleDad 10]

My spouse and I have been almost lifelong scouters and love the program. My son went from Tiger Cub all the way to Eagle Scout. Scouting has given him the confidence to be a success in life. I owe his sucess at college and in ROTC to scouting. I continue to be active even though my son has aged out.

 

However it is a different story if you work for them. Their Human Resources practices are in the stone age. My spouse was a 10 year employee. She has worked for two previous council executives and always received meets or receives on her evaluations. A new executive comes in and this guy is a royal dirt bag. He is abusive and belittles employees. He is openly sexist towards woman and hostile to older employees. Saying he does't like old women. 20 employees have left the organization because of him. He has had dozens of complaints against him and has been investiaged twice by National. No one at his previous council has anything good to say about him. He gave my wife the work that was done by three people previously and verbally abused her when she couldn't get it done even with putting in 60 hours a week. The assistant scout executive got out of there because he was having to seek counseling because of this guy. My wife complained to regional and to national HR and they did nothing for to help her. This jerk even bet the assistant executive a six pack of beer he could make my wife quit. (The assistant exec went along with the bet fearing for his career and job.) Finally she resigned her position because she said life wasn't worth living if she had to continue working for this guy.

 

So now she is out of a job and her retirement benefits will be small. National and Regional HR did nothing to help her. Recently another female employee of the council lodged another complaint about this guy. Yet HR does nothign. Many people have suggested that she sue the council and scouting but she doesn't want to do that as she loves scouting. But maybe that is the only choice left. Any one out there have any suggestions?

[John-in-KC 311]

1) Consult a labor law attorney.

 

2) Don't write another word on a public board. Giving out information can cause any potential redress (including mediation, arbitration, or lawsuit) your wife has to fall in the toilet.

 

2) We don't know where you are, so we don't know what redress options you have.

 

3) Remember that you have a passionate, emotional interest in what happens. You need someone who can be dispassionate and does not have an emotional attachment to the matter.

 

There are attorneys on this board; they might give you general information and probably disclaim their statements. You need to retain your own counsel.

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[UCEagle72 10]

Contact Wayne Brock -- he'll have none of that nonsense.

 

[Lisabob 13]

What you are describing may be a violation of federal civil rights law, as well as possibly your state's laws on employment & civil rights. John is correct - contact an attorney who deals with labor law and ask them whether you have a case. The federal EEOC may also be a point of contact.

 

Here is a link to the EEOC page:

http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/index.cfm

 

In the meantime, I agree you should post no further on public boards such as this. What might be helpful is to quietly and methodically gather together any paper trail you already have, including emails on this subject. (If you have emails, print hard copies.) Beyond that, contact a lawyer & EEOC.

 

 

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, SeaEagleDad, its hard to assess these things from afar, eh? If what you're sayin' is objectively true without any color from being the husbsnd of an aggrieved worker, then I reckon all that's necessary for evil to succeed is for good folks to do nothing, eh? The SE is hired by and works for the council executive board, not the BSA. Your wife and others need to file complaints with the council president for sexual harassment and age discrimination.

 

And then yeh need to do what yeh need to do eh? Which do yeh think is worse for scouting, lettin' this council and professional harm employees and scouting's reputation or pursuing a just complaint with da regulating bodies or the courts? This sort of stuff continues only because nobody stands up to stop it.

 

I agree with da others. Yeh don't need support from an online forum, yeh need to talk with someone specializing in labor law, who will give yeh da options at your disposal. If yeh get a large judgment yeh can always donate it back when da SE leaves, eh? Yeh can also talk to da local office workers unions in your area about organizing the council, dependin' on its size .

 

We are each responsible for addressin' the injustices that we see, with both prudence and fortitude.

 

Beavah

 

 

[jhankins 10]

Everyone that has quit needs to go to your wife to the EEOC, or as John suggested, call a labor attorney.

 

As a husband, a call to the council president would be in order.

 

Wayne Brock would be the last call on my list. It's a bridge you don't want to burn unless you have to. I'm sure he's aware of the junk happening at your council (he was aware of my council issues back in 2008 and gave me some wonderful advice).

[Eagle92 110]

Sounds like my old DFS, but after getting promoted to SE, he went back to being a FD.

 

What others have said is your best bet. Don't say anything else, get a lawyer and let them handle it.

 

Good luck.

[Eagle732 27]

SeaEagleDad, You're either from my council or there are more than one of these jokers out there. The Peter Principle in action! Very bad for Scouting! I was recently asked if I wanted to apply for a District job. No thanks, I know what goes on and it's not good. This is the stuff that keeps the best people from working for BSA.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

[BadenP 93]

SeaEagleDad:

 

Man things sure have changed in professional scouting since I was a DE. You have been given great advice about getting good legal help if she wants to continue in the profession. Now some personal inside information that any scouting pro or former pro can verify. In professional scouting the council Scout Executives have been and always probably will be a good old boys network, with some women part of the group. If your wife somehow manages to get the SE replaced the odds of her being reinstated are slim. If the BSA is forced to reinstate her because of a legal suit the new SE will probably make her job difficult to say the least, for example her evaluations not quite meeting expectations or added duties or quotas that are impossible to achieve, etc.

 

My advice is to carefully consider all the perameters and consequences of any action she may take. Is it really worth the battle, the rumors, questioning of her character and abilities, etc. In her mind is this job really worth going through all of that?

Whatever you two decide I wish her all the best, and to paraphrase the old saying "don't let the (professional scouting) bastards wear you down."

[Lisabob 13]

While what BadenP says is unfortunately all too true, it is also illegal. The same laws that prohibit sexual harassment in the workplace also prohibit retaliation for filing complaints about harassment, even in cases where the initial complaint is found to be unsubstantiated. Thus, if she is reinstated and her (current or future) boss makes her life a living hell as a result, this might well be a violation - again.

 

EEOC will do an initial investigation to see whether or not the claim merits further action. This costs you nothing and, in this situation where your wife has already been forced out of her job, might be worth doing. Your state may have its own state-level version of EEOC too, which the folks at the EEOC can help you figure out.

 

(Although I have some experience with these kinds of situations, I am not a lawyer & I don't play one on TV, either.)

[BadenP 93]

Sea Eagle

 

Lisabob makes a good point about letting the EEOC in your area look into the matter as it will not cost you anything and they can assess what legal claim you may have, and we all know how expensive good lawyers are. Again though no matter what happens don't expect your wife to be welcomed back with open arms to professional scouting, I watched a good friend go through something similiar years back. Even though she won her case and was technically reinstated the only council they offered her was in a very rough area of New Jersey, since her prior position was no longer available. She told me the area looked like a war zone, gangs and graffitti all over the place, and a noticeable absence of a police presence. As a single woman she felt very threatened and declined the position. National told her they would keep her informed if another position opened up that suited her background, she still has never heard from them again.

 

The good news is that she always always enjoyed gourmet cooking, she went to culinary school and is now an executive chef at a upscale dinner house. She is happy and told me that things worked out for the best in the end, even though she stillmisses her district, the people, and the kids.

[Twocubdad 665]

I wonder if BSA is self-insured against harassment suits? I bet that would change the dynamics.

[The Blancmange 67]

Beavah wrote:

 

The SE is hired by and works for the council executive board, not the BSA.

 

I've never really understood the dynamics of this relationship. I get it that the council is a separate entity that does its own hiring, etc. But National controls and maintains the pool of candidates from whom pros can be selected. To that extent, they maintain a great deal of control over who gets placed in what position. With that tight of relationship, one would think there would be a risk of this coming back to bite National, if for example, they keep moving around someone with a history of complaints.

[IBSteveC 10]

The guy sounds like a dirt-bag. Everyone is right- Get an attorney . Scouting is not supposed to be like this, They of all people should be great to work for as they are in a people business. I would contact all the other folks who have worked for Mr Dirt Bag get them to attest to and agree with your claims. Then I would sue this Council silly. Everyone is also right when they say that Scouting has become a good-old boys club. Once you do this you will probably never be employed by them again. I think you will find that's the good news. Scouting is at its best at the volunteer unit level. Once you get past that point things change. It's very umfortunate. Go get that lawyer- don't look back- While this may be negative to you now you can help change Scouting into something better. We need to get rid of the good old boys club and move the organization forward. The professionals will not do it it is not in their interest to do so. If we volunteers want control of this program and have professionals that are employed by us and paid by us do what we want we cannot accept this kind of behavior.

[Adam S 10]

Sorry to hear, the professional staff in my council has always been competent and personable in their dealings with us so it is upsetting to hear that, of course the BSA does not have the same people working everywhere so it is not just possible, but probable. Of course the old boys networks are illegal and have been diminishing in other industries but maybe this is persisting in BSA because of exactly what you said

 

"Many people have suggested that she sue the council and scouting but she doesn't want to do that as she loves scouting."

 

If she loves scouting force them to follow the ideals found in the scout law. It may be a hard thing to do but this will only improve scouting for everyone.