FOS at Eagle Court of Honor

[packsaddle 753]

"I find this to be really cheesy." To say the least. Cheesy, crass, tacky...got THAT right!

At an Eagle COH? Incredible. We had one DE who wasn't even that stupid and because of him, DE's are pretty much persona non grata at B&G, and any awards ceremony. At an Eagle COH? Forget it. I thought I'd heard of some things but this is incredible.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Still, I wonder what the take from the ECOH FOS presentation was?

 

 

Those who say the ECOH is all about the boy are wrong, in my opinion. An ECOH is a great way to motivate younger Scouts and their parents to adopt Eagle as a goal. It's a way to showcase the troop to the Cartered organization and the larger community.

 

Politicians may attend with an agenda not much different than the DE with a FOS goal he wants to make.

 

Rather than rule out a FOS solicitation altogether, I'd be more inclined to ask when and under what circumstances might a FOS presentation of some kind be appropriate?

 

 

Sorry, I'm not a pursit I guess.

[Abel Magwitch 10]

I am glad that others found this FOS request to be "cheesy".

 

I also need to clarify that our DE was a District Director overseeing two districts and our Scoutreach, In-school Scouting and LFL program. He had to take over our district for the past year because the previous DE was promoted to another district. This DD has no tact or couth. He hand picked the district chair and district committee. He does not follow district committee election procedures. He is not well liked. He came with our new SE two years ago. So he is not a green behind the ears DE.

[Eagle92 110]

Well I admit, I've done FOS at BnG and regular Cohs. That's what we were told to do, both as a volunteer, and a pro. BUT asked in advance to do it, and got permission. Folks knew we were coming. rationale is that you do see everyone at one time for the family campaign. But if a nit says "no" you don't push it, and you definately don't ambush them at their event.

[OwntheNight 10]

WOW!

The first thing I would have said to him, after picking myself and the phone up off the floor would have been "Sure, Do you mind if I procur Corporate Sponsorship for this to add some needed funds to our Troop bank account"

I wonder what his reaction would have been to that.

 

GOODYEAR proudly presents the Eagle Court of Honor for Johnny Scout of Troop XYZ live in HD on The OUTDOOR CHANNEL

GOODYEAR Tires and Johnny Scout-"Where Eagles Fly!"(This message has been edited by OwnTheNight)

[shortridge 184]

It sounds as though there's a consensus that FOS presentations at Eagle COHs are verboten, but at a "regular" COH, they're fine.

 

What's the logic there?

[Eagle92 110]

Short,

 

The reason for Regular COHs and BnGs is that those are the two functions that you will see ALL of the parents. You might not see all of the parents at a Pack meeting, and Usually only leaders at Scout meetings.

 

Own reminded me of a incident that happened just before I became a DE in my district. A lcoal compnay gave $5000+ to a local troop to buy new canoes and gear (pfds, paddles, painters, etc). The council had just created the Pamlico Sea Base (www.pamlicoseabase.org Sorry had to do a shameless plug for an awesome program ) and was still getting gear for that, and could have used some more kayaks.

 

My FD and I were tasked to talk to the company to get them to donate $ for the kayaks. CEO couldn't understand that he had donated to just one unit, and not the scouts in general as he thought the canoes would be used by all the scouts in the area. Needless to say we did nto get the donation.

 

Unfortunately when the troop folded about 2-3 years later, their canoes remained stored on a trailer in their former leader's yard, and no one has used them since. Hopefully with the recreation of the unit, at least some scouts will be using a trailer full of canoes.

[John-in-KC 311]

If my District Professionals had asked for this at EagleSons ECOH in 2006, I would have responded "How bad do you want my FOS contribution to go to zero, cause that will be the consequnce of doing this?"

 

I am with so many, this is a bad idea.

 

Beavah,

 

In our District, we let the units select when they want an FOS presentation. A lot of units do it during B&G season. BTW, it was that way when it was the "Sustaining Membership" drive when I was a youth member (1960s). The only difference is back then, Mr Shaw, who was the CC, gave the pitch, we didn't have visitors from the outside.

[Abel Magwitch 10]

I need to point out that this DD does not call in advance to ask - he usually askes at the COH 5 minutes before the COH begins. In fact, the SM who I saw turn him down, this DD wanted to know if he could have an FOS presentation right now.

 

Our last District Commissioner quit last year because of this DD and his tactics. Currently, our district officers look like this - we have a district chair (a judge who knows nothing about Scouting), a program chair, an advancement chair, and a training chair. That's it. There are no district vice chairs, no district commissioner, no membership chair, no roundtable chair, nobody else.

 

On a side note, one of our district's remaining troops is in its death throws. The troop only had 3 members left at the end of the year. But thanks to our DD, the troop was allowed to recharter for this year. The DD told the SM that he would take care of it by simply transfering some members (on paper) from another troop and register them with his troop. The remaining three atual members of this troop are turning 18 in the next few months. In essence, the troop will be dead, but not on paper.

 

I truly envy you Scouters who are part of good councils with good leadership (both professional and volunteer alike).(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[Beavah 205]

It sounds as though there's a consensus that FOS presentations at Eagle COHs are verboten, but at a "regular" COH, they're fine. What's the logic there?

 

There isn't any.

 

Yah, seriously, just because yeh have a captive audience doesn't give yeh the right to take advantage of it in a way that's this discourteous. Now, of course there are ways that are a bit better... perhaps a brief pitch while the lads are settin' up... but I'm not fond of those either. Particularly at B&Gs, which tend to run too long with adult stuff and disorganization anyways, so the kids are completely bored by the end.

 

Best thing for a real pro to do is to attend, participate in some minor way in the ceremony, and meet & greet da crowd. Take notes, exchange cards, build relationships. Gives yeh contacts and leads that yeh can "touch" later.

 

Abel, if you have hard evidence of membership fraud by the DD, it's time for a sit-down with the council president and SE. A Scout is Trustworthy, eh? Soliciting funds based on fraudulent membership reports can be criminal, and can have serious consequences for the council and all of scouting. If they don't listen, tell 'em your next step is Area and Region and then the media, or have your COR approach it through the council exec board.

 

Beavah

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I don't really think Blue and Gold dinners are especially good Cub Scout activities, by and large. But they are EXCELLENT vehicles for FOS presentations. And (purely by coincidence no doubt) they just happen to mostly occur during the FOS campaign!

 

Shucks --- my district AIMS to have FOS presentations during B&G dinners, and usually get the cooperation of the Cub pack in doing so.

 

Our pack B&G is Monday, and at the District Executive recently sent me his standard e-mail encouraging pack leaders to remind pack families that a B&G solicitaion will take place at the dinner, and to be prepared with a check or credit card to contribute if desired.

 

The presenter is encouraged to make the pitch shortly after the dinner begins, which minimizes conflict with the later pack meeting.

 

So around here, FOS presentations at B&G dinners is a well oiled and organized machine which which most packs aim to co-operate.

 

FOS pitches at Troop Courts of Honor are also the norm.

 

The idea that such social occasions should be free of such a solicitation is bogus, in my opinion.

 

Frankly. I suspect there are tasteful ways to do a FOS presentation at and ECOH if some thought were applied to deciding how that could be done. I don't much care for the DE asking for permission at the last minute though.

 

It is VERY LIKELY that a goodly part of the reason for the achievements of that new Eagle Scout is related to programs by the council and district over the years, from council camps to training. That needs to be supported to help others have the same opportunities.

 

The real question for me would be how to do that in a suitable and tasteful manner.

 

Just off the cuff, that might mean that the DE might present a quality slide show five minutes or so in length showing how council programs and activities help produce Eagle Scouts. I could imagine pictures from summer camp right through to pictures of the Eagle Board of Review (organized by districts). An invitation for those interested to help support these council activities to give other boys the same opportunities would be a natural.

 

A smart DE might offer to create a quality slide show of that kind using pictures supplied by the troop and family of the Eagle Scout. It COULD be an inspirational centerpiece of the ECOH if done well.

 

I disagree that an ECOH is or should be ONLY about the boy. The Eagle COH serves a variety of Scouting purposes, and I suggest that there are probably tasteful ways to include a FOS presentation as part of an ECOH.

 

Of course, such things can be done badly, too, and that seems to be what the DE in question has done. But it doesn't have to be done badly I maintain.

[jhankins 10]

From a District Director? Even more shame for him not knowing any better. With 4+ years in the profession he should know that's not the place for FOS. I'd be writing a letter to the council president.

[WAKWIB 107]

I guess the question of the day would be to find a recent or soon-to-be Eagle Scout and ask them if they would like a stranger coming in and soliciting funds for Scouting at their ceremony.

 

Our general perspective as adult Scouters seems to be, "Not only NO, but ___ NO!! I concur with that perspective. And I think, to put it mildly, that such a presentation would be less than effective.

 

No presentation of that kind should take place without the consent of the Eagle to be honored...period. If an Eagle wants such a presentation, then I guess we have to hold our nose and put up with it.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I think WAKWIB has ds right of it, eh? A solicitor at a social event should happen only if the host and guests of honor have freely chosen to invite him for that purpose. For scouting, that means da boys.

 

A Scout is Courteous, eh?

 

Da fundamental principle of courtesy is to put others before yourself. Whether it's opening the door and lettin' someone in ahead of you or honoring another's ceremony.

 

The unit / CO likely contributed more to the lad's Eagle than the council. Certainly the SM contributed more than the DE. So if the DE is allowed to beg for his salary at a COH, then why not the SM? And the CO can give a presentation about all it's youth and charitable programs. And the organization the lad did his Eagle Project for. And da school where the ceremony is being held if not the CO. All of 'em are worthy. All of 'em would want access to such a captive audience.

 

Of course, that's what makes it nuthin' but SPAM, eh? An unsolicited pitch conducted at another's time and expense. Yah, and that's what makes it discourteous. It puts our own needs and desires first, ahead of those of the hosts and guests of honor. It imposes on the good will of our people. It also puts ourselves ahead of all da other worthy folks who might also want access to solicit. If it's OK for us, why not for others? Ethically, we should always behave as though we'd want everyone else to behave in da same way.

 

Life has been decent to me, and I'm a relatively generous contributor. This type of stuff just turns me off, and tends to reduce or zero my contribution, dependin' on how crass it is. So I'm not even convinced it's effective. For every $20 yeh get shoved in an envelope to make yeh go away, yeh may lose a James E. West sized donor.

 

I know I'm an old fashioned sort, and modern courtesy is diminished from what it once was. But surely in Scouting we can try to take a stand against da trend. Startin' with ourselves.

 

Beavah

[gcnphkr 11]

DEs come to Eagle COHs? Not in our district.