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Mr.Maynard

What is the age of a ASM to be able to do a SMC

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There is no age. An adult leader in Boy Scouts must be 18. Once a leader, the adult is able to hold any position.

 

This is incorrect. The minimum age for a Scoutmaster is 21. A Scoutmaster may delegate to an SA (Assistant Scoutmaster) the task of providing a Scoutmaster conference for any rank.

 

For an Eagle Palm

 

After becoming an Eagle Scout, you may earn Palms by completing the following requirements:

 

1. Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 3 months after becoming an Eagle Scout or after the award of your last Palm.

 

2. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.

 

3. Make a satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability.

 

4. Earn five additional merit badges beyond those required for Eagle or last Palm.*.

 

5. Take Part in a Scoutmaster conference.

 

6. Complete your board of review.

 

Active, as debated many times, means different things to different folks. To some, registered equates to active. The Scoutmaster, who is in charge of the advancement program, makes that call. But, the National Council has stated that percentages and other "litmus" tests may not be used to determine active.

 

My oldest 'aged out' in August and went away to college. When we rechartered in January, he requested that he be registered as an SA with the understanding that he would be gone for most of the time but did want to stay registered so he could attend meetings and outings when he could (mid-May to mid-August) and even volunteered to pay for his registration.

 

He would be in that "tween" spot for the boys - a youth in the eyes of the OA, Venture and most of the troop committee but an adult in the eyes of most of the boys (but much cooler that the parents).

(This message has been edited by acco40)

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Acco's point of "being registered" often being equated to "being active" has caused some scouts/parents to win in appeal, but I think you're on solid ground if indeed the scout has attended absolutely no troop meetings or other activities and in no other way contributed to the troop. I know they don't like troops to impose a participation percentage, but it's hard to claim you're active in your troop and patrol when your participation percentage is zero. (In my old troop we had a 17-yr old Eagle away at college maintaining the troop website and got EPalm credit. I have no problem with that.)

 

Stand your ground. You're not hurting the young man - you're doing him a favor by stopping this embarrassing charade which is quietly eating as his soul.

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To all who have helped.

 

Here is whats going on now I have district calling me and talking for 45 min asking me what we can do to let this go through and not have any problems.

I told them to have the scout show up to meetings and stay active the way it states in the Bylaws as he has done for so many years in the past till his father found the back door to that one.

 

Last night at our meeting I had a different leader that is friends with the Father come in and tell me to sign a SMC after the fact that the BOR is already done. I told him no I wasnt doing that and he informed me that if I dont I would be opening a bigger can of worms than I could handle!!!

Our DE was at this meeting and just tried to talk me into signing it so I wouldnt bring any trouble to the troop.

I would like to know what trouble could that be?

in my mind Im right.

Eagle palm BOR are to be done with the troop and not in district unless someone from district calls the SM and gets permission to have the District BOR.

 

As far as the scout goes I only hold him countable for one thing that is knowing he is going around the rules and not doing it the right way.

The rest is on the father.

As far as Im concerned if the scout gets held up for any palms it the dads fault for trying to go around the rules and finding every back door where ever he can.

 

The scout with has earned the Silver William T. Hornaday Award for the Conservation work he has done.(Did a GREAT JOB )

But now Im told we should sign his Palm Application from now till he turns 18 for doing so with out showing up at meetings or outings and so on and to do so on the work he has done in the past.

 

As I told the DE the work he has done in the past isnt part of the requirement for eagle Palms

They are :

 

Copied and edited from acco40

 

After becoming an Eagle Scout, you may earn Palms by completing the following requirements:

 

1. Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 3 months after becoming an Eagle Scout or after the award of your last Palm.

(But per National he doesnt have to be there. so how can he show leadership?)

 

2. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.

(knowingly Going around the Bylaws of the troop)

 

3. Make a satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability.

(no leadership can be shown if the Scout has not been to a meeting in 6 months )

 

4. Earn five additional merit badges beyond those required for Eagle or last Palm.*.

 

5. Take Part in a Scoutmaster conference.

(The Father Found the back door to this one also)

 

6. Complete your board of review.

(has done this with District with out permission of the SM)

 

The end of my rant is that all I want is for my Scouts to have fun learn things that they might not learn without the scouting program and to advance in rank to the rank of Eagle!

THAT IS MY GOAL!

 

Thank you for your help

 

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WHO IS THIS GUY!!!! Does Daddy have a million bucks hanging around that he'll give to Council if his kid gets all nine palms?

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Was wondering the same thing.

 

Who is this parent that he has such pull with the council??? What 'can of worms' might you open by putting your foot down on such shady behavior? Very strange.

 

To my mind, even if req 1 is covered by the fact that he's still registered (no, I don't care for the 'active=registered' attitude put forth by National), certainly req 3 should be hard to pass if he's not showing up.

 

The district has no business doing Eagle Palm BOR. That's strictly the domain of troop BORs. And it would have to go on the troop advancement report, which shouldn't happen unless the troop did a BOR.

 

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well now they have the council advancement involved and they are having a meeting tonight and i had to write out a statement for the committee (LOL 3 pages long)

but i will not know anything till wedsday

 

 

Thanks all

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I think i did open it.

LOL i love to fish just not this kind (I hate politics)

well 1 more day till i find out what happins

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Mr.Maynard,

 

Your answer to council advancement, the DE and anyone else should have been a simple, I am the SM, the SMC and BOR will be at the troop level, and until someone removes me from being SM, BUTT OUT.

 

I would never have wrote a 3 page letter. I may have gone there in person and ask them by what authority they are questioning me.

 

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Well here is the final answer from council

The scout was awarded the Palms for being active per National and for the work he has done in the past.

not for the 3 months in-between palms

 

A Scout will be considered active in his unit if he is

 

Registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

Not dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

Engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (informed of unit activities through Scoutmaster conference or personal contact, Etc.)

 

This is quoted in the Advancement Committee Policies and procedures

 

A Scoutmaster conference can be done at any time, not just for rank advancement. It can be done when a scout is not advancing or when there is a problem with the scout.

 

what you conceder as a scout being active if you are telling them that they have to make so many meetings you are adding requirements (This is per Council & National)

 

so i just told the District Advancement Chairman to just let me know how many more palms the Scout can earn and i will just sign the forms and give them back to him right away

 

as i told him i have 37 boys in my troop and all are advancing and Im a bad no good Scoutmaster

For 1 scouts father going off the deep end

SO BE IT i have 36 more to worry about...

 

 

Thanks to all of you for listing to my rant

Mr.Maynard

 

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Then the answer is disenroll him immediatly, that ends his time, and also I would speak to the CE and tell his exactly what is going on. They had no authority doing this as you never turned the scout down, thats the only way he can appeal, and since you didn't deny him anything according to your emails, there is no basis for appeal.

 

I would be darned if I would take crap like this.

 

This man, his son, the DE and the council folks would quickly be personna non-grata at my troop.

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In regards to the answer you got back from the council.

 

1. The answer regarding active is the standard one, and am not surprised.

 

2. The SM controls the SMC. No ASM should be doing SMC without approval of the SM. They really didn't address this.

 

3. Eagle Palm BOR should be done by the troop. Districts have no business doing this. They never said a thing about this.

 

4. Troops submit advancement forms for Eagle Palms. If its not the troop, signed off by the troop leadership, who is doing it and under whose authority? They never really addressed this.

 

 

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Send him a disenrollment letter signed by the IH, COR, CC, and SM along with a refund of his dues. Daddy's so good at finding BORs for him, let him find another SM, too

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just a little update

I have the council advancement chair calling me to set up a BOR & SMC for the Eagle +35 palm

The CAC isnt real happy with the dad or the scout and is going to sit in on the BOR

 

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