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OakTree,

It turns out that Pennsylvania also has 19 councils (tied with New York and Texas)! They are: Chester County, Bucks County, Juniata Valley, Bucktail, Columbia Montour, York Adams, Westmoreland Fayette, Keystone, Chief Cornplanter, Minsi Trails, Hawk Mountain, Penn's Woods, French Creek, Moraine Trails, Susquehanna, Northeastern Pennsylvania, Greater Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Dutch, and Cradle of Liberty.

 

Dave, the data base was compiled by fellow Scouting memorabilia collector Dave Hultberg. He has freely distributed the Excel file and is on Patch-L if you want to ask about the sources he used. I'll send you a copy (if anyone else would like a copy, please PM me). The copy I have is 2002 and has 2,265 councils listed!

 

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Trevorum,

 

Thanks for looking that up. The two additional councils in Pennsylvania are Allegheny Highlands and Five Rivers. Both look to be headquartered in New York, but both include multiple counties in Pennsylvania. And they both have active web sites, so I don't think they've merged.

 

So does Pennsylvania move into sole ownership of second place?

 

Oak Tree

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OakTree,

 

You are correct. If we count councils which overlap into a second state, then Pennsylvania moves into second place, with Mason Dixon, Allegheny Highlands, Hudson Valley, and Baden Powell. (My records don't show Five Rivers as overlapping into Pennsylvania, but maybe I'm wrong.)(Again.)

 

However, I suppose that Texas cound be in second place with 20 councils if you count National Council in Irving. And, the New York folks could argue that they have 24 councils, if you count the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens, and Staten Island.

 

No matter. It all makes for more fun collecting patches! :)

 

 

 

 

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Trevorum,

 

I don't have access to whatever official records you're looking at - I'm just going by the council websites. The Five Rivers Council site starts off with "Serving the Youth of the Southern Tier of New York and the Northern Tier of Pennsylvania". Check it out for yourself at http://www.fiverivers.org/main_page.html

 

All in good fun.

 

Oak Tree

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Well, sure 'nuff. It looks like Pennsylvania is a clear second place! My records are by no means 'official'! (Only Dave Scott gets acess to those! ;) ) My source is just the data base laboriously compiled by an insane patch collector for use by other insane patch collectors (like me).

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I have been told by them who says they know that the BSA office was once in New York City, then it moved to "suburban" New Jersey and then was moved to Irving, just outside the confines of DFW. The reason was the same for all the moves, price. They supposedly got a great deal to move to Texas and be more centrally located in the country for a heck of a lot less than being in New Jersey (or any East Coast location)

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BSA National had 3 offices in NYC. First was in the YMCA on 28th Street. Then 200 5th Ave. Sometime in the 30's they moved to 2 Park Ave. In 1953 National moved to North Brunswick,NJ. I do not remember the exact reason for the move to Irving in 1979.

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If you ever visited the old office in North Brunswick, you'd know the answer. :) It was in a heavy traffic, industrialized area in a corner of the country where real estate is expensive and quality of life questionable in terms of commuting and such. All the National people lived over in Basking Ridge, which was pretty nice, but property values there would have been pretty outrageous, I imagine. Being in Dallas, off the freeway, near a major airport, in the middle of the country, with plenty of real estate available in the 'burbs probably looked really good to them.

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Thanks, guys.

 

Miki, that makes a lot of sense to me. I couldn't figure out why they had to move all that way just to find a good deal on a facility, but the idea that there was somebody who popped up with a great deal that happened to be in Texas makes sense to me. Seems a little weird, tho, that they couldn't have come up with something closer to where they were already.

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PS. Trev,

 

The first official BSA Scoutmaster Certificate (#1) was awarded to YMCA Boys' Work Secretary, M.D. Crackel, of the West Side YMCA of Cleveland making him and the aformentioned YMCA the first SM and troop.

 

David C. Scott

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