Adult Misconduct and termination?

[OXCOPS 10]

HOLY CRAP! I go get some sleep this morning and you people take the ball and run with it!

 

Get ready for another one of my marathon posts. I will attempt to address questions/comments by several members individually.

 

nldscout-

As posted above, we allow female staff members in several area of camp. There are propbably 6-8 on staff this summer. One of which was the first one who brought this whole thing to my attention. As far as the camp director goes, I am not sure where he has been. I do know that he, as usual, is going in 15 different directions all the time. I would have to guess that no one has mentioned it to him yet.

 

btps-

Another clarification. The IITs with COPE are not working COPE during summer camps. The unwanted comments and attention from him came during a staff training day back in the spring. These girls mainly work when we have non-scouting groups come for a weekend COPE course.

 

Rooster7-

I assure you that while it may not sound like it, I believe in the innocent until proven guilty philosophy. That doesn't mean I can't be suspicious. See below for additional response to some of your points.

 

OldGreyEagle-

I assure you that this is not going ot be dropped. I have a call in to the Scout Exec and am waiting on him to return my call. I refuse to have this hanging over my head.

 

kwc57-

You are probably right about my "cop side" coming out. That is just the way I am wired, I guess. However, let me clarify something. I didn't contact a police investigator first on purpose. I work night shift. I happened to get in touch with this detective while at work. This was after regular hours at the scout office and no one was there. Due to my work/sleep schedule, I was not able to contact the scout office until this afternoon. Now, just waiting on a call back.

 

-------------------------------

 

Now, I have been informed that due to there ages, they are not in violation of any state laws. That wil pretty much rule out any criminal action. But, I am confused about something. Bob White said that the job of the BSA is to recogognize and report a problem to the proper authorities, rather than gather facts about it. Now, what can be done if they are not breaking any state laws? Should the Scout Exec think they are in violation of BSA policy, who is to do the fact finding to determine yes or no? If nothing criminal occurs, then law enforcement will not get involved, leaving only the BSA to handle things internally.

 

As of right now, all the evidence available is circumstantial. But, there is enough of it to cause concern. Enough of which leads me to believe that it should be reported to the SE.

 

Since I don't run things, I am going to notify the SE of what I have been told and what I know. It will be up to him to decide whether enough is there to pursue or to simply hang up the phone and continue his day. I do not see how that is cowardly to report something you beleive to be a concern. Rooster, no flame intended at all, but while I understand your point about "reporting rumor" just for the sake of it, I do not think you ar giving me enough credit. When approached about his situation, I handle it like I would any other in police work (even though some say I shouldn't). I got the reporting parties side of the story and asked some questions as I have been trained by the state. After getting priliminary information, I went to other sources to get statements to corroberate the first report. I have been trained in a couple of great techniques of helping me to determine fact from fiction. You forget, I deal with liars and cheats everyday. When someone comes to me with a genuine concern, you can tell they are legit. I get their info, then try to get other independant info to support it. My sources do not know that the other one has reported anything. Both people told me (without knowing they told me anything) almost the same story as the other.

 

There are several pieces of information I have that I will be a paycheck that are true. There are others that I only have speculation. There is even more that I am not sure of the validity. That is why I am going to tell the SE what I know and let him figure it all out. That is what he gets the big bucks to do.

 

Respectfully,

 

OX(This message has been edited by OXCOPS)

[Bob White 20]

"I am going to notify the SE of what I have been told and what I know. It will be up to him to decide whether enough is there to pursue or to simply hang up the phone and continue his day."

 

That sums up your responsibility as a registered scouter. No more no less unless instructed otherwise.

 

" Now, I have been informed that due to there ages, they are not in violation of any state laws."

Good news from a civil standpoint, irrelevent to the Youth Protection policy of the BSA. For an adult to have one on one contact with a youth member is grounds for immediate and permanent revocation of membership even though it is not a violation of civil law. That is why any violation of the YP policies must be reported to the Scout Executive.

 

Thank you for contacting your local SE.

 

Bob White

[Rooster7 11]

Rooster, no flame intended at all, but while I understand your point about "reporting rumor" just for the sake of it, I do not think you are giving me enough credit.

 

OXCOPS,

 

No offense taken. Nor was I intending to discredit you personally. After all, I don't know you. I only know what you've relayed in your previous posts, nothing else. Having read your last post, it does appear as if you're being very reasonable and cautious in your approach. That's all I was trying to convey...although not necessarily to you specifically.

 

BTW, I do appreciate your profession. I have family that are involved in law enforcement. It's an unappreciated occupation by any standard. As a character on one of my favorite TV shows use to say, "Let's keep it safe out there" (or something like that).

[OXCOPS 10]

Well, I never heard back from the SE today. According to the secretary, he was "in a meeting for the rest of the day". I left a home and cell number for him to call and told the girl that it was a very important Youth Protection matter.

 

Since he didn't call, I may wait and call him at home later tonight....say about 2:00 AM? I'll be at work and should have time then. I bet he wold LOVE to hear from me then!

 

Seriously, I have to go to camp tomorrow so maybe I will get lucky and find him there. But this brings me to another question. While at camp, should I mention all this to the Camp Director also? Or would it be better to speak only with the SE and let him pass on the info? I'm guessing option 2.

 

OX

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Just to be consistent, I have to say HOLY CRAP is not exactly scoutlike talk and I would appreciate not seeing that phrase again.

 

I am glad you are reporting to the scout executive

 

BTW, you should know if you ask this group for advice you will get it, from all angles and with great passion, welcome aboard(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eagle74 10]

""Well, I never heard back from the SE today. According to the secretary, he was "in a meeting for the rest of the day". I left a home and cell number for him to call and told the girl that it was a very important Youth Protection matter.""

 

Maybe this thread and the one over in Issues & Politics re: police explorers (see the first sentence of my post there) are more closely related than we would like to think?

[OXCOPS 10]

OldGreyEagle,

 

My apologies. I must say that I am pleasantly suprised by all the replies received so far. It really helps me alot.

 

Eagle74 said, "Maybe this thread and the one over in Issues & Politics re: police explorers (see the first sentence of my post there) are more closely related than we would like to think? "

 

For the record, while I am a cop, I have NEVER played the touchy-feely with anyone, especially a minor. I am also proud to say that I am not affiliated with ANY of the agencies of officer involved in that ordeal.

 

OX

 

[Eagle74 10]

OXCOPS, no arrows shot your way & none intended. It was a shot at the seeminly low priority your case received. The vast majority of police officers and Scout leaders wouldn't even think of becoming involved in this type of incident. But, it happens, and to be surprised that it does takes a certain amount of disconnection from reality.

 

As I mentioned earlier I was directly involved in one sexual misconduct investigation with one Explorer Post. I have also been indirectly involved in two others due to the successful manner in which the first was handled. All three involved emergency services Explorer Posts. It happens and we need to deal with it.

[OXCOPS 10]

UPDATE:

 

Well, after getting off work this morning, I had a chance to get some sleep. Just as soon as I get into that deep sleep stage, the SE calls. (They always seem to have a great sense of timing, don't they.)

 

Anyway, I tell him what I know and he is no real thrilled about the situation. He said that he is going to talk to the Camp Director and let him in on it all. Since I have to be at camp later this morning, he is going to tell the camp director to find me and get the details.

 

My initial impression from the SE is that he is going to err on the side of caution and SEVERELY limit the guy's involvement with the BSA, if he is stll allowed to remain a member. There is a little more information for him to gather and it is just too early to say at this point.

 

That is where we stand right now and I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

 

OX

[bt01 10]

OXCOPS

Ok hes not working on Cope this summer the girls work with non-scout groups on the COPE course. What do the girls do for the rest of the week??? Do they have contact with him?? I have worked at some camp for eigth differedt years, I am always surprised on what the kids can pick up.

 

[OXCOPS 10]

btps-

 

I am not sure what his job at camp has been. The girls work with administration, trading post, etc. He has been able to have a lot of contact with the girls.

 

The second group of girls, who are my COPE IITs, are not working at summer camp at all. Their interaction with this guy happened back during the spring at a COPE staff training class.

 

OX

[dsteele 20]

Jeez -- I go off to do camp inspection and come back twenty-four hours later and we've got a lot of responses here!

 

Anyway, I'd like to address the point about the SE and professional staffs not being investigators. We're not. Our job is to report suspected abuse to the authorities. If there's to be an investigation, the police or social service folks handle it. They're far better trained to do that kind of thing.

 

In this particular case, it sounds like the young man hasn't violated any laws. If someone files sexual harrassment charges, that may change.

 

Ox raised the question of what can the SE do if the police won't do anything about this legal activity.

 

The Scout Executive isn't (as I tried to say earlier) responsible for the legal action taken or not taken. He is responsible for upholding the membership standards of the Boy Scouts of America. He can pull the registration of this young man. In this particular case, as a camp staff member, the young man is an employee (although a seasonal one) of the council. The SE can decide to fire him, or the Camp Director can decide to fire him.

 

The Scout Executive is very correct to err on the side of caution. The BSA has made it clear (at least verbally to me) that if we're going to make a mistake, we're going to make it in the favor of a youth.

 

There is an appeals process. I also believe it is far better to remove someone's registration immediately than allow them to work with youth while some poor DE conducts his/her version of an investigation.

 

DS

[OXCOPS 10]

Well, I had to go out to camp yesterday for various reasons. One was that the SE wanted me and the Camp Director to have the same talk I had with the SE. The SE briefed the Camp Dir. prior to my arrival, but wanted me to give him some details.

 

While in that meeting, I had a female barge in and interrupt us. She was IRRATE! She just had an encounter with this guy that she believed to be inappropriate. While I will spare you all the details, the Camp Director has now decided that he feels the best course of action is to remove the guy's membership in the BSA ans sever all ties completely. (I agree.)

 

He will talk with the SE Monday and they will decide what course of action to take. The SE said he wanted me to remain informed of what happens, so I will report back should I hear something. I have a feeling that this young man's adult career in the BSA is about to be cut short.

 

OX

[bt01 10]

It sounds like things are happening for the good.

 

B

t

[fotoscout 15]

OXCOPS,

 

Isnt it funny how things happen by coincidence? Youre having this meeting with the SE and CD, and, in barges this girl............ Wow!

 

Thanks for bringing this to the forum, it was a good exercise for me and I suspect for many others as well. No one wants to suspect the worst in anyone and because of that many of us hesitate just like you did. I hope that this experience will help us all to be a little more proactive in our approach.