OXCOPS 10 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 OK. I'm back with another round of questions. This time it is geared towards unsavory conduct by someone. Let me just lay out the details, as I know them. I am the council COPE Committee chairman. I have a new Director, who is 24. He has been on staff for about a month. He was also a staff member at summer camp this year, but not with COPE. I was recently informed that while at summer camp, he began to "get to know" a 16 year old female kitchen staffer. They have been leaving camp at night and driving 20 miles back to his apartment and spending the night. Rumor (yes, I know) is that this is not the first female from this age group he has had "relations" with. I had the mother of another 16 year old female camp staff member call me saying that this guy has continuously been calling her wanting her daughter to come see him at his apartment. Mom said no obviously. Daughter is scared of the guy. I have also overheard some of my female COPE IIT's (15-17 years old) talking about him hitting on them also. Now, a few other tidbits before I ask questions. As some of you know, I am a 26 year old cop. This guy's apartment is inside my jurisdiction. I am not sure about my state's statutory rape laws, but I believe that the female is just old enough to be considered a consenting adult. I will be looking into that tomorrow at work. However, I still do not think that this is appropriate conduct for an individual who is associated with the BSA. I also have reservations of him working with the girls who are our IIT's. They have said they do not feel comfortable around him. Now, question time. What action can I or should I take as far as scouting goes? I am playing with several ideas. 1. Talk with members of the COPE Committee and see what their recommendations are? Termination, in-house counciling, suspension? 2. Talk with the Scout Executive and/or Camp Director and see what the council wants to do. I feel that our Scout Exec. will request his resignation from any postion in the council. 3. All of the above? 4. Leave it alone. I am still going to talk to an investigator at the office and run the deal by him. Hopefully, he can let me know of the legalities involved from the criminal aspect, although that is not my intentions. But, I am required by law to investigate any suspected case of abuse against a minor that is brought to my attention. That said, I do think that guy is in the clear as far as the age thing. Reason I bring all this up is that I do not accept his behavior. I think that a 24 year old guy has nothing to do with a 16 year old girl. I also think that it doesn't send a very positive message to teh parents of current and potential scouters. So, who wants to go first? Thanks in advance! OX Link to post Share on other sites
ASM7 10 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 OXCOPS If what you have described in your mind is sexual abuse, and it is happening in the local council, then the the proper response would be to report it to the Council Executive. From my recent youth protection training, that's what we were told. We were also told that it's not our job to investigate, only to report it. This definitely does not need to continue. Report it and you have fulfilled your responsibility. Link to post Share on other sites
lasteagle83 10 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Let me get this straight....... 24 year old, in position of authority, takes MINOR (regardless of age of consent, which in most jurisdictions applies ONLY to minor/minor contact) girl TO HIS APARTMENT for overnite stays, constantly hits on other MINOR girls (who have said they are uncomfortable around him), and has every possible appearance of a possible sexual predator (younger victims, in position of authority, etc)? If you confront him, he will likely argue that 8 years is not that much difference in age - which it's not, if he's 38 and she's 30. But when you factor in the fact that he is 24 and this girl is a MINOR, along with the difference in maturity levels, this guy cannot be allowed to continue. Maturity is paramount issue here; does wide-eyed 16-year old really have the good sense to know the difference between "attention from an older guy" and something else? If you let this continue, you risk several things: 1. Council could be up for lawsuit - the last thing the BSA needs is a potential scandal of this sort. 2. Forget the fact that Scouting is involved here; this is, in the eyes of employment law, very much a case of sexual harassment. 3. Then you get into the fact, again, that this girl is probably NOT OF LEGAL AGE. Check the laws on age of consent again; in most jurisdictions they leave no room for minor/adult contact, REGARDLESS OF CONSENT. 4. Last but not least, you are a sworn officer, and if this continues unabated with your knowledge of the situation, YOU CAN BE JEOPARDIZING YOUR PROFESSIONAL REPUTATION, AND YOUR FUTURE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, as well as Scouting. You're now a part of this, like it or not - it won't be easy and it will likely get ugly. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I strongly advise you contact your Council executive and the local law enforcement and report a suspicion of child sexual abuse. Let the authorities determine if a law has been broken an if prosecution is in order. Let the BSA look into a likely violation of the Youth Protection Policies and take the proper actions. Depending on the state you live in, failure to report this situation could result in criminal and civil charges against you. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 All of the above is sound advice. Let these other parties take the responsibility off of your back. All you are reporting is a suspicion and that is the way it should be characterized. Given your special responsibilities as a peace officer I would suggest keeping a diary of your conversations to document what steps you take, should that ever become an issue. Put the responsibility where it belongs. Link to post Share on other sites
Laurie 10 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 eisely said "all you are reporting is a suspicion". I agree. If handled in a confidential manner with the appropriate people you are serving Scouts, the law, and these young girls well. I've a question though. You said this girl is a staffer. Does she have parental permission to leave camp while working there? Or at age 16, is this not necessary? Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 OX -- Number one in your question is the wrong answer. Number two, as several have already pointed out is the correct answer. Go to the Scout Executive. Number four really isn't an option. You'll also need to do the cop stuff, but you're far better qualified than I to know what that is. DS Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle74 10 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Posts above all offer good advice. Other than as Scouter reporting a case of suspected sexual abuse and/or sexual harassment (gender-based harassment for the PC) step to the side and try to let the "system" do its job. I can appreciate your position as a police officer. Fulfill your obligation as a police officer and use it to your advantage. Since the apartment is inside your jurisdiction (is the camp?) pass the information into the proper channels within your department and let Council know that you are doing so. Either the investigating officer should make contact with the Council or the Council should make contact with the officer so that everyone is playing from the same page of the same book. I went down this route once with an Explorer Post and Council had to sit tight while we conducted the investigation. Fortunately, the investigation went quickly, charges were filed and Council took definitive action regarding the status of the adult leader at that point. In the legal arena, Council will initially be in the same position you are currently in - they have an obligation to report suspected potential criminal activity, not conduct their own investigation. Report the circumstances, then stand back and let the investigation run its course. You may be of value as a witness if the girls under your charge have discussed this with you in your role as a supervisor and since you had a conversation with the mother of one. The rest - overheard girls talking - is hearsay, but together with the rest of the circumstances is more than sufficient to warrant an investigation. Do not conduct your own investigation, do not try to pry more information out of the girls and do not discuss the specifics or even generalities with anyone other than those charged with investigating the incidents. Keep a close eye on this guy. You would still have a duty to act immediately within the scope of your duties as a supervisor and/or police officer if you witness improper or illegal activity, or it is reported directly to you. Link to post Share on other sites
OXCOPS 10 Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 Thanks for the replies so far. I don't know if this matters, but I am not on staff for camp. The only connection I have with this guy is that he is a COPE Director and I am the COPE Committee Chairman. As far as any investigations, I am going to go talk with an investigator at the ofice in the morning. I believe the guy's apartment is in my jurisdiction. Tha camp is about 20 miles away in the next county. But, since nothing took place at camp, and only in his apartment, it is in my agency's jurisdiction to investigate. Even if no state laws were broken, the Scout Law was. I won't tolerate shady behavior like this, if I can help it. Lasteagle83, I am almost positive that at 16 she is considered a consenting adult legally. However, that still doesn't negate the point you made (that I agree with) about him taking advantage of her. eisely, Good idea about taking a few notes. Every now and then I an required to conduct internal investigations on some of our part time employees at work. I learned a long time ago that even at 26, my mind ain't what it used to be. Write it down! Laurie, I am not sure if a 16 year old needs parental permission to leave camp. Her mother is staying in camp and is on staff too. From what I have gathered, she really doesn't care if her daughter leaves or not. That will be a question asked when I talk to the scout executive. I have another uestion. Should I even let the COPE COmmittee in on this? We are a good group. There are MANY years of combined scouting experience in there. I trust these people to keep their mouths shut about what is discussed. Personally, I think that they are a vital source of advice and wisdom for me when it comes to COPE and other BSA stuff. Knowing some, they may also wish to go to the scout executive with me just to be a show of support. Good idea to talk to them or not? Thanks for the advice so far, and keep it coming. I will keep you posted as this progresses. OX Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 GO TO THE SCOUT EXEC. DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT COLLECT $200. GO TO THE SCOUT EXEC. ASAP = TODAY. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Tell no one but the scout executive and the local authorities. But you must report this. I am surprised that as a peace officer you have not recieved training in this area. I am hopeful that as a scouting volunteer you have taken Youth protection in the last three years. Either way you should know the importance of confidentiality and your responsibility to report you suspicions to the proper authorities. You MUST tell the Scout Executive of this. Forget whether the age of consent is 16 she is still a youth at a scout camp. Report it! Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
ASM514 10 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 PLEASE! FOLLOW BOB WHITE'S ADVICE!!!!!!! He is right and his advice is your only hope at this point!!! ASM514 Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Ditto to Bob White! This must be reported. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
bt01 10 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 This must be reported, ASAP. Report it to the scout executive and the local authorities. If this happened at the Scout Camp. The Camp Director should be in the loop. BT Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 What part of now do you not understand? Sorry for the sarcasm. Do not delay further. Link to post Share on other sites
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