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The Order of the Arrow has at its heart promoting Camping. At least that's what I have been told multiple times over the years.


Consider that for some reason, Venturers could be elected to the OA. They would have to fulfill some sort of Camping requirements and then consider that a Venturing Crew can be High Adventure, Arts and Hobbies, Religious Life, Sports or Sea Scouts, How do the last 4 use Camping as an integral part of their Program?


Leave the OA alone, an accomplished Venturer, male or female, youth or adult does not need membership in another organization. If the Corps of Discovery isn't enough (and I am not sure its viable) then Venturing really doesnt need it


My opinion only, of course

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I don't wish to sway the thread towards the political, but one must always remember there are those who simply like to stir the PC issues until everyone is basically dissatisfied.


Boy Scouts technically, by title and definition, should be for boys. Nope, the gals want in.


Societies for the promotion of woman's issues doesn't really appreciate men in their ranks.


NAACP doesn't recruit many whites, KKK definitely doesn't recruit minorities, Catholics, etc. etc. etc.


Adults get "kicked out" of participating in any program when they turn 18, of course they can be a leader, but that has huge amounts of restrictions placed on it.


There are thousands of groups out there that prefer that certain others are not "welcomed" to participate. They may allow one to participate, but the message: "your really not one of us" permeates most discussions.


BSA is not unlike every other organization out there. It's just that it is a national movement of notable recognition. Therefore it becomes a great target for everyone with a political agenda to make waves.


Why doesn't any of these groups just start a Homosexual Boy Scouts of the USA? Or Co-ed Scouting, or Family Scouts, or something like that? Why do they need to hijack someone else's program? They want the perks but they don't wish to work for them.


OA is a sub-program of BOY Scouts of America. Just leave well enough alone. I would love to see a sub-program of Venturing designed specifically for the needs of co-ed groups rather than try to put a square peg in a round hole.


The BSA has limited resources, it ought to be putting them into making what they do best, be the best. All of these distractions are really not worth watering down a great program.



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I don't hear folks say that the young women don't deserve membership in the OA, but I do hear people say that they don't meet the requirements because the young girls in a Crew cannot earn First Class rank.


The OA falls under Boy Scout program and not Venturing program. Unless National does some reorganizing, I don't see it changing. I have looked at the Corps of Discovery movement for Venturing. Some local Crews are discussing it. One minor problem is that they use basically a lodge flap and National says that it's not approved for Venturing uniforms.

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The OA should be dissolved.


Here's what the OA has become:


* Free labor for BSA to set up/take down summer camp at council scout camps


* Native American cultural preservation (dancing, ceremonies, drums)


I see no other real activities from the OA than this. I've been in the OA for 40 years. I don't see that it serves any real purpose.


The OA does nothing to promote camping. The accuracy and appropriateness of native american cultural preservation is dubious. And BSA needing the OA sash as payment for helping clean up and set up campsites is questionable.


It no longer serves as an honor society. Everyone who gets first class or is an adult leader for a year expects to be made a member. OA has so much churn that without handing out lodge flaps to everyone with 12 months of membership, it wouldn't be able to operate.


Shut it down. The end. Write it off. It was a good idea. It was hijacked by BSA for labor. It was hijacked by the wacky Indian interest people as a social club. It has lost its way and adds no value to our country or to the mission of BSA.

(This message has been edited by BSA24)

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jblake, FYI: the NAACP has always been open to people of multiple races, was founded by a racially diverse group of people, and in fact did not have a black president until the mid 70s. Probably not the best example for your point.

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As one who is not a colored person, I have never been on their short list for contacts. I'm wondering what color white is? Oh, yeah, it's all colors of the spectrum. So much for another poor analogy from the physicsly impaired.


Thanks for the update. :)



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As a youth, I enjoyed the fact that the OA and the BSA was male-only.


I know women who prefer female-only schools.


It gets tedious when the equality idea turns into a bludgeon on every little matter. Life's different. Variety exists.

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BSA24, you call it free labor, I call it cheerful service. I guess it all depends on you perspective.


OA promotes camping. Helping your local camp prepare for summer camp seems to me to be part of promoting camping.


Fortunately membership is not mandatory so if you don't agree with it then you can drop your membership.

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Must respectfully disagree with you on some things BSA24.


While I have not been in the OA as long as you have, I have been in over 20 years, served as a youth officer in one lodge, chapter and/or committee adviser in 4 four lodges, and was a member in a 5th lodge. In my expereince every lodge is different. I'm sorry that the lodge you are in is only good for putting up and taking down for summer camp, doesn't do their homework when it comes to AIA, doesn't promote camping, and is only a social club now.


But not every lodge is like yours.


I have yet to see the "perfect lodge" as every lodge tends to focus on different things that I've been in. Some had really outstanding service work, not only putting up and setting up for summer camp and other activities, but also doing real valuable and meaningful work to keep the camps in operating order. Best example I can give is Croatan 117 and the tremendous amount of work we have done over the past year to fix the damage from the hurricane last fall. There is no way the camp would be able to operate without not only Croatan 117 members, but also members from the other lodges in our section trying to get the camp back in shape.


Some do a stellar job in camp promotions and summer camp staffing. Putting together to notch videos and having a large percentage of the staff being Arrowman. Chilantakoba Lodge 397 is a good example. Look at their Camp V-Bar videos on Youtube.


Also I know of lodges that contribute camperships to allow scouts to go to camp. I know my chapter alone has sent about 12 people to summer camp and Philmont over thepast 10 years, not to mention the thousands of dollars raised to get tools and equipment for our local scout camps.


As for AIA, we've already had this discussion. Yes some lodges do not do their homework, but there are lodges that do.


Now I do agree with you on the current election procedures. While I have seen it where most of the folks did not get in, and in one case after two ballots no one got elected, those elections are not the norm as they use to be. And I agree it hurts the Order.


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In my area OA might just be the only place where a boy can be a part of a real boy led organization.


BSA24 is too busy fighting another battle to comment about real program that is run by the boys.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

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