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sherminator505

"The Honor Society of Scouting"

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SR540 & Sherm

 

IMO what Mazzuca is doing is NOT rebranding the BSA rather he is dismantling the basic heart, foundation, and core of the program and trying to replace it with some type of high tech, online oriented program that may initially attract some other kids but like any computer game they will eventually become bored with it. Lets make no mistake here people Mazzuca has stated repeatedly that the outdoor program is not important to the survival of the scouting program. So instead he can focus on programs developed for the hispanic culture exclusively, and what I call coach potato scouting or virtual scouting where eventually you will see boys get Eagle without ever getting off their ass. National doesn't care because it will bring in new membership and MONEY.

 

As far as the OA is concerned I think it could prosper again with some minor tweaks and more emphasis on the lodge doing more high adventure camping than gets done in many troops today and could be that carrot that attracts more active members. The tapout and ordeal ceremonies need to be more refined and dignified instead of looking like some kids playing indians. Sloppy ceremonies=sloppy,unorganized lodges and that = Inactive members.

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BadenP-

 

I get your disagreement with my rebranding comment, but do you also disagree with my broader point about the language obscuring the point of the exercise?

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sherm

 

Yes I get your point and agree with you. It is amazing how language can be used and manipulated to say absolutely nothing that sounds so profound.

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OGE (This message has been edited by a staff member.) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

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Interesting thought, Seattle Pioneer. My DH is a goodly part Cherokee, my closest friend is Ojibwa. That, along with extensive travel in the West, still didn't prepare me for what I experienced at a pow wow in Wyoming. I viewed the Ordeal and Brotherhood teams just a little differently after that - I think it might be different if OA members tried to understand the historic role of dance teams in native american culture.

 

OTOH, I'm pretty sure my comment above is completely unrealistic.

 

Vicki

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OGE (This message has been edited by a staff member.) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

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I agree that a closer adherance to the ceremonies and customs might help boost the OA lodge's stature in the council and generate interest. But isn't that more relevant to the traditional meaning of the Order, rather than the current rebranding?

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Sherm,

 

Regardless of the "branding", the traditions and ceremonies of the Order have not changed.

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No, but too often, youth standards are sub-par. A ceremony is theater, and the audience are the entrants. The theater must be nailed to the wall. The consequence of failure to do so is distraction, and distraction lowers the added value. That in turn is important when folks are tired, this is part of the first impression of the Order upon them.

 

Sometimes, the young thespians have to be given a failing grade and told to try again.

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Vicki;

 

On the other side of the coin are the Koshare Inidans in La Junta, Colorado. If you are not familiar with them, here is a link to them. http://www.kosharehistory.org/index.html The group has been in existence since the 40's, and has worked so hard to develop authentic programs that a number of tribes have honored them directly, and some even given permission for them to do dances that normally would not be acceptable outside the actual tribal customs.

 

Take a look.

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>

 

 

Another interesting thought experiment might be an OA chapter where Native American youth form their own dance team as a vehicle to express their own culture.

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