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ETD129-AW Chpt Adv

Parents attending OA Ceremonies

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I agree with Old OX. The OA and its ceremonies should not be open to the general public. It looks to me as though people are looking for absolutes. Regarding the clergy wishing to see what we do and what a ceremony entails ... absolutely ... invite him/her to come and see. If a parent has issues ... absolutely ... allow them to be a spectator. Others? No.

We don't invite the public to view Wood Badge presentations. We don't encourage parents to observe NYLT. We don't allow mom to sit nearby as Johnny is doing his Vigil None of these things are secret; they're private moments for those participating. Maybe we need a differnt word ... "secret" seems to bother people.

BDPT00

 

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Parents should be allowed to attend and strongly encouraged NOT to attend and given reasons why.

 

Should parents of a high school football player be allowed to attend the half-time speech by the coach in the locker room?

 

Should parents be allowed to attend every visit a student makes to his high school guidance counselor?

 

Parents - get a clue, let go and let your charges grow up.

 

Can't you see that your child will view the event much differently given the fact that your are there vs. are not there? Having the right and acting upon that right are two very different things.

 

My oldest son went through his Ordeal the year before I did. On the eve of my Ordeal, I asked him a few questions about preparation and he just smiled and said he couldn't tell me about it! Truth be told, I knew that and wasn't really looking for a response but wanted to give my 14 year old son a reason to be one up on his dad/Scoutmaster. It gave him immense joy.

 

I ask parents, why the compelling need to want to attend?(This message has been edited by acco40)

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Hello Acco,

 

 

Sorry, but bin my opinion BSA rules require that parents who wish be allowed to observe ***any*** BSA youth activity. Discouraging such attendance strikes me as directly violating that rule.

 

The idea that discouraging parents doesn't violate the rule strikes me as being a willfully bad judgement. Anyone who can't figure that out should not hold an OA adult leadership position, in my opinion.

 

I'm not the OA Policeman. I'm one Scouter with my own opinion/interpretation. But any OA adult leader who would discourage a parent in any way has terribly bad judgement and would worry me about other bad decisions he might be making.

 

It's a trivial issue. Adults who are wrapped up in it aren't dealing with reality.

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ACCO,

A young man's peers voted him to have this honor. Ceremonies and honors such as these are seen as rites of passage for a young man by many parents and they wish to freeze their son's honor in their memories; maybe even share them years later. It's like parents who attend football, basebal, ball d' jour who could care less about the sport itself but want their son to know he has support. I was one of those kids whose parents never came to anything if it was not some achievement at school. The Secretary of the Navy presented my Quartermaster Award but my folks did not attend. Obviously, they never attended any OA anything for me.

 

So what about the Scout who wants his parents there? How comfortable will they feel after someone "discourages" them? Are we supposed to harm the Scout just because we think differently? How unilateral!

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The whole purpose of the OA

 

From Wikipedia - Ceremonies were once considered to be secret, and consequently the OA has been viewed by some as a secret society. With the introduction of Youth Protection program guidelines in 1980s, the BSA has made clear that any concerned parent, guardian, or religious leader may view a video of the ceremonies, attend meetings, or read scripts upon request to a council, district, lodge, or chapter official to assure themselves that there is nothing objectionable.

 

Such persons are asked to safeguard the details relating to ceremonies for the sake of the participants. The intent of the provision for parents and religious leaders to be allowed access to ceremonies is to ensure that there is no religious conflict or violations of youth protection guidelines occurring. Parents have long been discouraged in many Lodges from seizing the opportunity to use the provision for photo opportunities with their sons. Hazing or demeaning initiation pranks are also prohibited by the OA and the BSA.

 

I contend that for a child, having a parent or parents attend, especially if they are not OA members, takes away from the experience for the youth. Therefore, I feel it a selfish act by the parents to push for attending. Having attended many, many OA ceremonies, I share this - I don't think I've ever witnessed a Scout progress to "seal" his membership in Brotherhood that had a non-OA parent attend his Ordeal ceremony. Does that indicate anything or is that just a weird coincidence?

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Sorry, Wikipedia is not an authority. Its full of opinion and mis-information. What you quoted contained subjective commentary and only states the author's views;i.e. Not Facts!

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SP - Can you identify the difference between these terms: encouraging, allowing, discouraging and prohibiting?

 

There is a rule against prohibiting parents from attending OA ceremonies. There is no rule against explaining to parents why we would prefer that they not attend. That is a fact. If you feel that discouraging parents from attending should be prohibited, you need to focus on changing the rule to reflect that -- not on re-defining simple words to twist a rule into what you wish it meant.

 

But in this case I think that the BSA rule is pretty much irrelevant. Any adult who actively prevents a parent from having access to his or her child is, I believe, engaging in kidnapping. Or at least some illegal activity. Any legal experts care to chime in?

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>

 

 

Perhaps it is selfish of parents. Or perhaps they are simply suspicious of putting their son in the custody of people they don't know to engage in some kind of secret ritual they might not approve of. It doesn't matter.

 

Frankly, I am PLENTY suspicious of the people posting here who prefer to exclude or pressure parents into not attending. I think such people are overinvolved, lack good judgment and are foolish.

 

That goes double for people who think they should be able to fast talk parents out of attending and think they are being smart in attempting to justify that.

 

After reading the amazing comments and justifications I see posted here, I am no longer surprised at the number of Scoutmaster who don't want to have anything to do with OA. I've pretty much been converted to that point of view by this discussion myself.

 

(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

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Troops never disband because Scouts cannot get along; they disband because adults cannot get along; and now, I have had an enlightening moment! What is wrong with the OA is way too many adults who cannot keep the promise they signed on their BSA Appication to follow the rules. They run the OA to suit themselves and, in doing so, dishonor those OA adults who understand the BSA & OA are for the kids and follow the rules.

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"Why do parents feel the need to attend?"

 

Well Acco, there are some parents who might like to share important events with their child. There is no deep, underlying, horrible motive. Just the wish to be present, and view (and perhaps immortalize), an important event in their child's life.

 

Do you have kids? If so, haven't you ever experienced this?

 

 

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If a Scout attempts to find a job will his parents request to be present during the interview? Are parents allowed to sit on their own son's eagle board of review or any board of review of their child?

 

SP if you were in my district or council I would not give you the time of day and would seek your removal from serving at those levels. I think you lack judgment and wisdom! Oh wait a minute that is what you would say about me, yeah whatever, I'll just chalk it up to you being anti OA. I'd not do that to you as it is not scoutly. I see the OA as one of the best parts of a boys experience in Scouting if only we adults would just stay out of the way and let it happen and should he impress upon those who have lived closest to him his sincere desire to live acording to the high ideals of the Oath and Law, and earn election from them.

 

Character is what happens when no one, espically parents are not looking. Are his peers going to be so impressed if his parents helicopter over him?

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Brotherhood,

 

You have just compared oranges to armadillo's and turned it into bubble gum. Resort to enapt allegories all you want; you are still wrong. Discouraging parents from attending at a proper and secluded spot is not in the spirit of the rules, nor in the Spirit of Scouting. This is worse than quoting Wikipedia as an Official source of facts about Scouting! Admit it, you do not like the rule so you will say anything to make yourself believe violating the rules is in the Scouts best interest. Its NOT!

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All you "Ban The Parents" guys out there should see the smoke signals in the sky! One of you is going to cause an National Media Incident and BSA will have to disband the OA. It only takes one. Start deciding now if you will be part of an outlaw OA or finally give in and follow the rules.

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