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Anyone else seen the on-line Anti OA items Re: similarity to Masonic Order?

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So, back in the 60's when the first James Bond Movies came out there was a rumor that the Vatican had it's own secret agent,


Et Cum Spiree 2 2 0


Then again there was the story of the priest ( again in the 60's) who took in a long imprisoned mafioso. After the Sunday collection the priest notices wallets, rings, and earrings in the collection he takes the old boy aside and says, "you know, its my fault, the words are Dominus Vobis cum, not Dominic go frisk 'em"


never failed to get a laugh in the Seminarian library

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Let's see.   Neither Goodman or Edson were Masons when they formed the OA. I know that Goodman LATER became a Mason, no idea about Edson.   AFAIK, our rituals never had a 'blood covenant'.  

The writer is in extreme peril. He has desecrated the cloak of mystery of two powerful secret societies. I predict he will be disappeared soon.   Actually, this makes me want to become a Free M

Yes, there were originally 2 degrees.  The first was split into two, and "This second half would become known as the Second Degree (making the Vigil the Third Degree). It also defined when a member se

BadenP writes "Pope Benedict and his personally selected cardinals want to return to that elitist prevatican II church, first by eliminating all ecumenical talks with other Christian denominations". Well, I'm still waiting for that to happen. Actually, someone should let Benedict know, so he can stop that pesky dialogue with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

(Fair warning, readers: this one's gonna be chock-full of sarcasm and snarkiness)

He also writes that they will "[declare] that 'that the sacraments of the Catholic Church and the ordination of Catholic priests are the only truly valid sacraments in the eyes of God, and that all other sacraments and ordinations are invalid and illegitimiate.The Roman Catholic Church has the ONLY true path to eternal life'". I find it reassuring to know that you have already obtained a copy of Benedict's script. Having said that, of course, there are a few theological flaws in your copy of the script: First, the ordination of priests IS a sacrament of the Catholic Church, known as Holy Orders, so to separate ordination from the other sacraments is, in a Catholic sense, absurd (particularly if we're going with your theory of pre-Vatican II elitism); Second, the Catholic Church recognizes and has recognized, even since the days of its (to use your favorite words) elitist, subversive, and anachronistic pre-Vatican II era, the validity of the sacraments of the Orthodox Churches (including Chrismation), as well as the validity of Baptism in the Protestant Churches (As the Protestants, by and large, don't quite buy into Transubstantiation, the Protestant forms of Communion are not universally included in the RC recognition). Furthermore, as it is the theological understanding that Christ is the primordial sacrament, it would be impossible to disregard all non-Catholic "sacraments", as the other Christian faiths share with us in the belief in Christ, whom we view as sacrament.

(Sorry for the theology lesson, folks, I minored in religion)

I am, however, curious about this "Catholics Come Home" media blitz you mention, as I never saw it. I'm not doubting that it happened, mind you, I just never came across it. (Perhaps it was a blitz everywhere except in NYC...)


As I think on it, BadenP, you must be right; we Catholics really are problematic: Take Fr. Flanagan; now there was a first-class jerk. Same with Fr. Chisolm and Fr. O'Malley. Yeah, we're the pompous, elitist, subversive, etc., et al. But it's you, most enlighted and nondiscriminatory sir, who is the one doing the name-calling. As a certain green-blooded favorite of mine might have said, "Fascinating".

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It is that kind of Catholic bigotry spewing from your post that will prevent any ecumencial progress from ever taking place. Your theology is as flawed as your faith traditions belief that Jesus founded the Roman Catholic Church which is historically untrue. An ordination of or a communion service presided by any legitimately ordained Christian minister is just as valid as those done by Catholic priests, probably more so since unlike priests other ministers are not as deluded by thinking they literally turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. By the way Bkyln there is no such thing as the ontological change that priests state gives them the power to transubstantiate or to forgive sins.


Lastly Catholics Come Home ads are currently running on tv, tonight the Catholics claiming they invented the scientific method and that they teach more children than any other institution in the world, not only are these both absolute falsehoods it just show what low levels of lies they will stoop to in order to bring in people to the pews. The Catholic Church is a sham built on a weak foundation of redacted scripture, false theology, and a corrupt clerical leadership from the Vatican down to the parish priest. In the end they will answer to the Supreme Authority, but for now watching the clergy rapidly dwindling in numbers will put the Catholic church in a severe crisis in very short order.

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Glad to see the site's back online.

 BadenP: I'd like to know what "Catholic bigotry" was spewing from my post of Feb 26.  I merely presented a Catholic perspective on where your rantings and raving err with regards to Catholic theology and tradition in and of themselves and with regards to the Catholic relationship to other Christian dynamics and traditions. Now, I know that YOU think that all of that is bigoted, but quite frankly I don't trust your opinion on this matter. I'd like to hear other posters' analysis of my Feb 26 and BadenP's Feb 26, and see who is popularly viewed as spewing bigotry.

Frankly, I find it kind of amusing that you describe my faith practice as "flawed", "untrue", "deluded", "false", "a sham", "false theology", and "corrupt", but somehow I'm the bigot. Though I agreed with your post of Feb 23 in http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=267350&p=2, I am compelled to echo Oak Tree and say "Wow".

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I am a former Catholic, and have numerous issues with certain doctrines and dogmas. However, your post do not sound like "bigotry" to me. You are just intelligently attempting to explain some things. Just because Catholics are firmly set on certain views does not make them a bigot. Jesus and the apostles were firmly set on many doctrines too. And I would suppose that there are people who for lack of anything better to say, would call them bigoted.

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A Scout is Friendly.

A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.


A Scout is Courteous.

A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.


A Scout is Kind.

A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing.


A Scout is Reverent.

A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

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Catholics and Freemasonry...I am not a Lawyer of Divinity, but I am Catholic and I know that there have been no less than 24 'bullas' issued by numerous Popes on the relationship between the Freemasons and the Catholic Church's male members. The first Pope to address the issue was Clement XII in 1738. His Papal Bull decimated most Masonic Lodges. Masonry had not crossed the pond at that time, so his address nearly destroyed the lodges in Europe and the European Colonies. As far a the Salza guy goes, he is speaking squirrel. The Catholics recognized the fellowship and camraderie and Father Mcgilvney(sp) founded the KofC. You really have to read into the mission statement of the Knights to interpret what was really going on in the US. I will go out on a limb and state that the KofC is more than a Mutual Aid Society or Insurance Company. They invest alot of money in construction of capital improvements for the Church, therefore receive a lot of debt support in way of payment from numerous parishes. I requested a annual report of the KofC and was amazed at how much money they have invested in construction projects. James West would be envious of the principles employed by the KofC.

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Not to worry BklynEagle, hands down not only were BadenPs posts bigoted, they were downright offensive.


deluded by thinking they literally turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ BadenP, what authority gives you the right to slam a persons faith and belief? It frightens me that youre in a position of promoting this kind of intolerance in the guise of the Scout Oath and Law.


I found his initial post intriguing and it prompted me to do some research, but BadenPs latter posts on this thread have only characterized him to me as a raving crackpot, at least in this matter, and not worth my time.


Ill keep my Catholic blinders on, thank you.





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Keep your blinders on but the truth is the truth and any faith based on lies is a lie whether you choose to believe it or not, and you are entitled to believe whatever false doctrine u like. As far as a raving lunatic is concerned Mikey, scripture, eccleisology, and the history of Christianity supports my position, and all you have are a bunch of deluded clergy who view themselves as demigods and miracle workers when in fact many are just ill trained and who use fear and empty rituals to control their congregations. I know I was Catholic, worked in the church, and personally know of what I speak, what do you have supporting you Mike, blind loyalty to a cult of clergy who are liars and an abomination in the eyes of God.


The Catholic Church is in serious crisis with ever shrinking number of priests who have been exposed in recent years for what they truly are. Fewer and fewer numbers in the pews, and a pathetic tv ad campaign currently running, to try to bring them back, more and more archdioceses going bankrupt paying off settlements from priest abuse cases. All of these IMHO are God's way of retribution. So believe as you will. "Know the truth and it will set you free."

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AFAIK, the Brotherhood was NEVER called the "Blood-Rite" degree. We originally didn't have 3 'degrees'.

Yes, there were originally 2 degrees.  The first was split into two, and "This second half would become known as the Second Degree (making the Vigil the Third Degree). It also defined when a member sealed his membership into the fraternity by becoming a true brother in the fraternity."  This would involve an exchange of blood and indeed, the 2nd Degree did become known as the "Blood-Rite". 


When I became a Brotherhood member, this exchange was symbolic, but at one time they actually pricked the candidates' fingers or cut their hands.  The practice was forbidden in 1956 after a 40-year run as part of the 2nd Degree ceremony, but the practice is reported to have continued until the 60s, maybe even the 70s.  This info is from the official OA website, so it is reliable.  I wrote an article long ago and John Salza used it for his own anti-OA purposes, which was never my intention, being both a member of the OA and a Freemason.  In that article I mentioned the Blood-Rite but didn't adequately source my facts.


In response to doubts that the Brotherhood was once called the Blood-Rite, I've summarized the history in a new article and linked to a couple of sources. I hope it clears up some of the confusion that may have been caused by my original article: http://lawsofsilence.blogspot.fr/2016/12/yes-virginia-it-was-called-blood-rite.html



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