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skeptic

Anyone else seen the on-line Anti OA items Re: similarity to Masonic Order?

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WOW!! I'm a little speechless after reading the article by this Salza character!

 

The dude has definately been brainwashed somewhere along the way!

 

While there is no denying some of the OA rituals are borrowings from the Masonic traditions, this guy obviously has absolutely no clue! I guess it just goes to show what people can read into things they do not take the time to try and understand or gain knowledge of. Our rituals had to be taken from somewhere - guess that was the most logical place to look towards.

 

If his srticle wasn't meant to be taken so seriously, it would actually be kind of funny - the notes, suposedly written by a Catholic priest, reference "fire rituals and witchcraft" but yet what's one of the first things that's done in most churches before a mass? Yep, spark up all those candles!

 

I can remember an old priest in my parish growing up during his sermon ane day (I was too young to remember what was going on in the world to provoke him to say this), but I remember him clearly saying that you can not be a Catholic AND a Freemason. I mean this was maybe late 1970's or so. Kind of shocked me because the guy in the pew in front of me was wearing one of those big honkin' masonic rings :)

 

Hey I think I need to sign off now - there's some sketchy looking dudes in long red robes speaking Spanish and carying what look to be like pitchforks coming towards me......hey one of them has a bunch of wood and a torch....but I don't see any marshmallows...what's up with that?!

 

 

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This thread has been fun to read, but I need to pick up my ELCA son to get to Micosay dance practice tonight.At the Catholic church.

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It really does go to show you that anything can be taken out of context.

 

< snark on >

 

Oh, goodness - those people in that imposing edifice over there are pretending to EAT A MAN!!! And DRINK his BLOOD!!!

 

< snark off >

 

See what I mean?

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The rituals in the OA are strange and I can see how anyone could guess that Masonic rituals had an influence. Certainly, Native American traditions are a big part of it. There was nothing in the Brotherhood ceremony I experienced that violated my beliefs as a devout Christian.

 

Personally, the biggest takeaway I receive from being an Arrowman is being a part of a "Brotherhood of Cheerful Service." Service is the KEY word for me.

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...And another thing. I have no desire to be a part of any secret society. As far as I can see and as Brotherhood member, there is nothing secretive about the Order of the Arrow. Ceremonies can be viewed by the public and parents. I showed my wife the script to my Brotherhood induction ceremony to share with her what I went through. She thought some of it was kinda' funny and laughed. I had to laugh a little myself. :)

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As an addition to this discussion, the President of the UK Scout Association is the Duke of Kent, who also happens to be the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England.

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I was just inducted as an ordeal member into the OA, and witnessed my son's ceremony for brotherhood. As a roman catholic, I had no problems with the OA oath(s) and ceremonies; in fact, I was more comfortable with them than I was with the Knights of Columbus secret ceremonies which I was told I could not even tell my wife about (I left K of C over this). Although the OA likes to keep their ceremonies a surprise, they are by no means secret, as parents and others are able to witness them if they desire (as I did for my son's). In fact, one of the OA brotherhood members I met was a catholic priest heavily involved with the order. He is planning a 100th anniversary Scout Sunday service for our council and even offered mass for the catholic scouts and scouters at then end of the OA weekend!

 

My read: for many people, secrecy = conspiracy

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Frank,

Welcome to the OA! While I wish you wouldn't have seen the Brotherhood Ceremony until your time, I understand the perogative and don't have a problem with it.

 

In my old council, we had a bunch of members on the CCS in the OA, with several being Vigils.

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Obviously this Salza fellow is a whackjob, like those types that get bent out of shape over the jolly old elf from the North Pole, on account of "Santa" being an anagram of "Satan". (Cue the forboding music and the cameo of Vincent Price)

 

As a Catholic, and a rather conservative on at that, I have no problem with the OA, and neither does my priest. Like many others who have posted here, I can think of more than a few OA-affiliated members of the local Catholic Committee on Scouting. It seems that Salza feels that (A) the lack of obvious recognition for the Christian God and (B) the similarities between the OA and Freemasonry are enough to make the OA a no-go. Salza probably dislikes George Washington for similar reasons.

 

I think that it is highly unfortunate that Mr. Salza has elected to make mountains out of mole-hills, and state without equivocation that he has done no favors for his Church.

 

As a side note, in response to BadenP's comment on the rocky relationship between the BSA and the RC Church, I would say that the larger issue was the fortress mentality taken up by American Catholics as a result of persistant and violent persecution. My ancestors may have (unfortunately and inaccurately) thought that all Prots were jerks, but that was because "No Irish Need Apply" signs multiplied faster than rabbits, and some Protestants enjoyed teaching their kids how to build a fire while they were next to the wooden walls of the local Catholic church.

 

Oh, and shortridge, another comment like yours of 10/15, and I'll have to recommend you for THE COMFY CHAIR! ( ;) )

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I am a Catholic OA member; the article is preposterous.

 

The Masons, having been in existence for centuries, pretty much were first to define through their practices many of the elements going into ANY kind of organization initiation. They helped to establish the basic concept.

 

But it's a leap of logic to then call the OA Masonic. Mr. Salza needs to cut back on his caffeine intake.

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We recently had a Scout transfer from a neighboring troop chartered to a rather conservative Protestant church. One of the things he didn't like about the other troop (or perhaps more accurately, that his father didn't like about the other troop) was that they don't participate in OA as they thought it to be un-Christian.

 

Who knew?

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2Cub,

Don't feel bad. We had 1 chapter in my lodge refuse to have any of their members go through the Brotherhood Ceremony as my chapter's reagalia was based upon the 1920/30s regalia of black robes and Native American headdresses. thought we were satanic with the robes. They use robes at OATC, and some of our folks came back from OATC and wanted to use robes.

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Well, I haven't saw fit to participate in this thread yet, but I do have a perspective.

My father was 32rd degree in the Scottish Rite, and Boumi Temple member,and I joined the Demolay (jr. Mason club) for two years at my dads invitation. I have to say that all clubs that use "secret" stuff to lend an air of importance to it's purpose can be held similar to Masonic ritual. What's more important is the promises made and kept.

The Masonic organizations are religious in tone and activity and can become a religion, superceding the originaL faith of the adherent, if they should follow it to it's logical end. Many faiths are not sympathetic to or comfortable with Freemasonry and rightfully so in my opinion. But that said, the Masons do good public work, secret ritual and regalia not withstanding.

OA is certainly not a religion, but it's native American symbolism based ritual is meant to remind the member of the importance of faith (whichever), loyalty (brotherhood) and service to others.

I chose not to be supportive of a secret organization that my loved ones would not be permitted to participate in or observe. I know I became uncomfortable with some of the Demolay ritual and symbolism, even at my young and tender age, and so did not continue. That much I remember, details of my discomfort are not so clear.

On my father's death, our favorite Methodist church allowed a Masonic ceremony during his memorial service. His Lions club spoke, I spoke, and the Masons spoke, top hats, aprons, capes and all. They invited me to consider joining my father's lodge, but I had to say no, due to the secrecy and religious overtones I knew of. I said I thought that being a Quaker AND being a Mason would not be possible. I remember they insisted that the two could be reconciled, but I demurred.

I see no such conflict with BSA and the OA (so far!).

 

YiS

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