Confidentiality

[fotoscout 15]

Ed has the idea! There is no black and white here.

 

MW, what if your disclosure resulted in the child receiving a severe beating from his father who tuned out to be a closet child abuser? You had no idea about the father, but the child knew, and thats why the child came to you.

 

I remember talking to my Dad about why different kids & families did things differently than we did. Why was I reprimanded for things that other kids got away with, and, why were other kids reprimanded for things that I got away with. He would always say, Remember, not all families are like ours.

 

Of course his wisdom was lost on a young kid. But the profound brevity of his statement is something that continues to grow on me. Ive modified it slightly, and used it on the other thread. I think Ill post it again in this thread.

 

Remember, not all families are like yours and mine.

 

By the way, my Dad passed away over twenty years ago.

 

 

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[evmori 11]

Bob,

Get you head out of the book for a minute! If a Scout tells you something that is not illegal, harmful, dangerous, detrimental to his education THEN asks you to not tell his parents you need to assess what it is & make that determination. If you flatly refuse to uphold his request regardless of what it is do you really think he or any other Scouts will come to you for advise?

 

This isn't in the books & it isn't black & white. Maybe that's why you don't understand it.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

There is a black and white here fotoscout.

There are no secret meetings in scouting. To teach a minor that it is OK to keep secrets from his parents is wrong. To tell him you will help him keep secrets from his parents is wrong. It is a tool used by child abusers and should not be modeled by responsible leaders.

 

We are not talking about calling parents up and saying "do you know what Billy said?". We are talking about a leader, Ed in this case, who said if a parent asked him directly about his discussion during a Scoutmaster conference, would tell the parent that "it was confidential" and would not discuss it.

 

That is way out of line. Do what you want in your personal life but don't inflict your bad judgement onto the scouts or the scouting program. You guys need to revisit youth protection training. There are no secret meetings. They didn't say "except for converstaions between scouts and scoutmasters". Do not impose yourself as the parent of the scout.

 

This is purely a power play to make the role of scoutmaster more important in the eyes of the scout and the mind of the scoutmaster. Scouts should be encouraged to discuss problems with their family, Scout leaders should never keep secrets from parents or guardians regarding their children, unless you believe that abuse is involved then you are required to call the authorities.

 

Here is any easy test. At your next COH tell all the parents that if their son ever tells the leaders anything about their lives, and asks that it be kept from the parents, the leaders will not discuss it with the parents even if they ask about it directly.

 

Then wait for the response.

 

Here is the gray area, do I demand the SM be removed now, do I wait till I can get the CC alone, or do I remove my son from the troop and this potentialy dangerous leader.

 

 

 

ED

Scouts talk with me because I resect them and they respect me, not to use me to keep secrets from thier parents.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[saltheart 10]

Absolutely this is a black and white issue.

 

We can not and should not set ourselves in the position of keeping secrets from parents, unless, and only unless an abusive relationship between child and parent is suspected. In that circumstance we have pretty specific legal obligations to report to authorities. Youth Protection training should be teaching us that. But we are not trained nor are we licensed to maintain a Scout Leader / Scout relationship of the same nature as client / attorney, or doctor / patient, or even that of Priest / Parishioner at Confession. Were not tattle-tales all. Were not all going to report to Moms & Dads that Johnny has a crush on Suzie. But out of simple respect for the authority and responsibilities of parenthood, we must afford that respect to the parents of those in our care in Scouting as we would expect afforded to ourselves. There can be no confidentiality curtain imposed by an adult leader between a parent and his/her child. That charge was never given us by the BSA, nor anyone connected to Scouting. Should an adult leader choose to impose that curtain, secretly or otherwise, he/she does so at their own peril.

 

I would suggest that the answer to Bobs query is that the leader who attempted to impose such a curtain of confidentiality between parent and child through Scouting would not serve long in his/her position, or boys would be leaving the troop not by their own choice. There may very well be parents out there who would be quite at ease knowing that a Scoutmaster is keeping secrets about their son from them. But I somehow have doubts that any of them post in these forums.

 

 

[fotoscout 15]

>

 

Bob, Im sure you already regret writing that. Apology accepted.

 

If think you fail to recognize the potential negative impact on the child if that childs situation is not presented to the parents in a proper manner, by the proper person, at the proper time. Again I remind you that I am talking about extraordinary situations here.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[Bob White 20]

fotoscout,

 

No apology offered. Go back and take YP training. They list the methods used by abusers and this is one of them. I did not imply that anyone on this board was an abuser, I said they were modeling this behavior for the scouts and telling them it was OK, when we as parents and scouters are telling them that adults who tell them it's OK to keep secrets from parents are dangerous. Let's keep the message consistent.

 

Bob White

[Eagledad 2779]

>>MW, what if your disclosure resulted in the child receiving a severe beating from his father who tuned out to be a closet child abuser? You had no idea about the father, but the child knew, and thats why the child came to you.

[Zahnada 11]

Bob White says, "We are not talking about calling parents up and saying "do you know what Billy said?". We are talking about a leader, Ed in this case, who said if a parent asked him directly about his discussion during a Scoutmaster conference, would tell the parent that "it was confidential" and would not discuss it."

 

I'm starting to agree with this more, but not entirely. I don't think we need to be tattle-tails. If a parent asks directly about their then the process becomes more black and white. But the grey area is when the son says something important about his life, and the parents never ask directly. Looking back on the hypotheticals, I wouldn't initiate a conversation to tell the parents. Is it a secret if they don't ask? Thin line. But I think we need to be more clear one where we stand on this issue because many people sound like they would rush to the phone and tell the parents. Is that really what you're advocating?

 

As for the "secret meetings", are we talking about confidentiality or the fact that adults and youth can't meet one-on-one?

[Twocubdad 665]

I realize hypotheticals are the meat and potatoes of this board, but I think this topic defies being defined in terms of fictional situations.

 

Sitting here I cannot think of a situation in which I would not ultimately either inform the parents or involve professionals. Certaily, the best avenue is to convince the boy to talk to his parents on his own. Failing that, I would almost certainly have the conversation with the parents myself, with or without the Scout. If I felt the circumstance required keeping the information from the parents, with equal certainty I would involve other professionals.

 

All that said, I do leave open the possibility there may be a rare instance where the best interest of the boy is to keep the confidence. I know of nothing which requires me to hang up my judgement or humanity when I put on my Scout uniform. If faced with a drastic situation where protecting a child required that keep his confidence and face the sanctions, I hope I would have the judgement and courage to do the right thing. More to the point, I would do my best to avoid that kind of delima in the first place.

 

Fourunately, those situations are more "Movie of the Week" plots than reality. We have a better chance of winning Powerball than being faced with something like that.

[sctmom 11]

Ed, I may not always agree with you but on this subject I think you are the voice of reason!

 

I'm 40 years old and there are still things I don't tell my parents! If telling the parent will help the child from being in danger, then by all means make the call. There are times the boy needs to talk to a mentor, a non-family member.

I'm a single mom, my son doesn't talk much with his dad. I can imagine there are some subjects that he may want to discuss with another adult instead of with me. It might even be about me! He does talk sometimes to his grandpa, who sometimes tells us and sometimes doesn't. So far none of it has been about legal issues, drugs, religion or sexuality. I trust his scout leaders, grandparents, and certain other adults to talk to him and if necessary NOT tell me.

 

Remember how it was to be a teenager. Did you really want to talk to your parents, of all people, about sexuality?

I think offering to talk to the parents with the boy is good. If he insists you don't, then make him tell you why --- we are talking about kids 11 yrs old and up, they should be able to verbalize why they don't want something.

 

[Bob White 20]

But sctmom, what the practice is within your family is your families business. A scout leader has no right to interfere with that.

 

I am in my forties and my teenage son knows he can talk to his mom and me about anything and he does, including sexuality. No one outside our family has a right to teach him otherwise through instruction or through their actions. And certainly, unless you are prepared to involve the legal system, no adult has the right to keep secrets from me about my child.

 

This is about leaders setting bad examples and trying to be more important than the parents and family. "You can tell me anything and I won't tell your parents" says that keeping secrets from your family is healthy, and it is not. It is a method employed by irresponsible adults and a tool of abusers as well. It has no place in the scouting program.

 

You want to keep things confidential from other scouts or leaders fine. But when you start keeping information from parents you have crossed a very important line.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad 665]

As usual, Bob, you couch things in the most draconian terms possible. No one has suggested hanging out a shingle saying "You can tell me anything and I won't tell your parents." Just the opposite, in fact. I think everyone agrees that keeping such a confidence would be a fairly rare and serious decision.

 

Why does listening to a boy necessarily mean you are interferring with parental descretion? Can you not lend someone an ear without passing judgement or trying to influence their actions? If it's simply an out of bounds topic (and not a matter real danger), why not just reflect the problem back to the boy? "Bobby, this really isn't a Scoutmaster kind-of thing. Even though you don't want to, I really think you need to discuss this with your folks, or maybe you guidance counselor or minister." How does that interfere with the parents' authority? Where's the requirement that we report everything to the parents?

 

Granted, Eagledad makes a valid point. You never know what may come back to bite you. Fortunately in his situation, he made the right call. There could also be a situation where involving yourself by going to the parents could make the situation worse. Omnipotence isn't a job requirement here, just good judgement

[Bob White 20]

Twocubdad

 

"Why does listening to a boy necessarily mean you are interferring with parental descretion?"

 

It doesn't and I never implied that it did.

You can listen without witholding information from the parents.

 

"Bobby, this really isn't a Scoutmaster kind-of thing. Even though you don't want to, I really think you need to discuss this with your folks, or maybe you guidance counselor or minister." How does that interfere with the parents' authority?"

 

It doesn't and I never implied that it did. Agreeing to keep secrets from the parents is interferring.

 

"Omnipotence isn't a job requirement here, just good judgement"

 

I agree, and I see that promising a scout that you will keep what he says secret from his parents is pretending to be omnipotent and is not using good judgement.

 

So I am not the one you disagree with here Twocubdad.

 

Bob White

 

 

[sctmom 11]

I hope my son can talk to me about anything, but I'm realistic to know he may not.

 

I would not make a blanket statement to any child that they can tell me anything and I promise to not tell their parents. If they asked "can i tell you and you not tell" I would say "I can't make that promise, let's talk".

 

 

[Bob White 20]

And I think that is a very reasonable answer.