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Crossramwedge

When does a boy find out if he has been elected for the OA?

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Crossramwedge,

 

Wow. You're really working this.

 

But I do understand your concern about lost paperwork. First off, the Scoutmaster is to be working with the Election Committee from the time they come in the door, through the election process, and when the paperwork is filled out. If anyone is elected, "someone" has to provide the Election Committee with those Scout's information. It's usually always the Scoutmaster.

Because everyone around my area wants any Scouts (if elected) to be "surprised" at their Call-Out Ceremony, paperwork is filled out and held until the Call-Out Ceremony is done. Our Lodge Registrar is so efficient, he sends out invitation letters very quickly. Too quickly sometimes. And the Scout receives his invitation letter in the mail before he's Called-Out. Surprise lost. We send nothing to the Scoutmasters. They should know the night of the election. They "really" should. Get a new Scoutmaster.

So, the whole process is based on the Troop's OA traditions and wishes. The Scoutmaster should be in the lead on this. Sorry that yours doesn't wish to be. So who does represents your Troop at your Troop OA Elections? That's the person you evidently want to talk to.

 

 

Good Luck, and let us know what happens. We do care.

 

sst3rd

 

NOTE: I keep hearing folks occasionally alluding to the fact that only non-OA members of a Scout Troop vote in the Troop's annual elections. This is not true. All Scouts in a Troop, OA members and non-OA members, vote.

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crw, I looked at your other posts and, at least from your viewpoint, there does seem to be an issue w/your SM.

 

The four SMs I've worked closely with would be more likely to give up their morning coffee than allow the OA election rep to be the only one who knows the results.

 

Here's what I've observed in my neck of the woods (Greater St. Louis Area Council). The SM (or ASM designate, if absolutely necessary) knows absolutely everything that's going on in an OA election. He or she is the one who is supposed to certify the scouts as eligible and approve those elected (depending on how the troop/OA lodge conducts the process these two steps may have variations from what I've gathered). At the very least, the SM is there counting votes right along with the OA rep.

 

Vicki

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How can a SM not know the results of an election. Doesn't he sign the election sheet? Every election my troop has had, I had to sign the sheet with the names up for election and the results.

 

I have some issues with the elections rules in that some boys who are not popular, but good scouts, always get passed up. One very good scout in my troop almost quit because he was not elected. I can relate to a dad whose son was passed up. It took my son till he was 16 - an he was an Eagle scout at the time!

 

The fact that a SM did not tell a scout he got passed up is just wrong. Bad news is better than no news at all.

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I have sent him an e-mail and asked him since my son was never notified either way, if he would mind sharing that bit of info. I sent that first thing yesterday morning. Have not heard from him yet.

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It's a BOY-LED organization. We shouldn't get upset because Johnny was passed over for Jimmy. OA is a society of HONOR CAMPERS! It is designed for the boys who are the best Scouts, who lead by example, who best lives the Scout Oath and Law. That is exactly how it should be explained to the voting youth. If a boy is passed over and really wants to be a brother, change your ways to show the troop they made a mistake and next year he may be rewarded. As far as the original question, our troop holds it's election during the winter and the boy is "notified" at the Spring Camporee. At the closing campfire, the OA callout ceremony has the candidates removed from the crowd by the OA team and brought before the Lodge officers. After accepting the candidates, they are led away where they are given information packets regarding the Ordeal. The candidates are made known to the callout team by having an OA member who knows the candidate stand behind them holding their sash over the Scouts head. It adds a lot to the mystique and anticipation of the whole process.

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If I was a betting man I can see one reason why your son was not elected. You said

" I did forget to mention in my earlier post that my son was called out once two years ago but because my wife and I did not understand what the OA was("Secret Society") etc. etc. we discouraged him from accepting. "

 

I am betting that the scouts remember him being elected, called out and not following through. Now he wants to be elected again, and they are saying no way. We honored you once and you let us down, why should we honor you again?

 

We had this very same thing happen in several troops. Might be just speculation, but......

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I will agree the only mistake my son (as Nldscout mentioned) may have made is that he did not accept "election" the first time he was elected and "Nldscout" may be right in that some of the boys remembered that and did not vote him in and may not ever vote him in because of it. I guess he could talk to some of the boys and explain to them why he turned the election down the first time. But as far as my son having to "Change" to be elected, I do not know what he would change. He is a living walking Scout Oath. No airs. He is humble, yet proud of what he accomplishes. No brag in him. (I guess I am doing enough bragging for him, BUT I do not make a habit of it and am doing so just to get some points across.) If he does not get into the OA he will just keep on doing what he is doing. Leading by example. Living the Scout Oath. Moving forward and not looking back.

 

 

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I got my answer this afternoon from the SM. My son was voted in and needs to go through the "Ordeal". It seems that the SM wanted to keep it a secret. He was the one who was supposed to contact my son and was going to try and "spring" it on him at a camp that was having an "ordeal" ceremony. Because of this he missed an "ordeal" opportunity as he was helping another scout in his troop finish his Eagle project. The scout had time restraints that required it to be done ASAP which precluded my son attending the "ordeal" call out. The problems where not the fault of the "Eagle" scout. The whole troop had voted to cancel this particular camp-out and stay and help their fellow " Eagle" scout. If he had known he was up for the "ordeal" process I could have driven him to the "ordeal " location after ( 40 miles) he finished helping with the "Eagle" scout project. He then attended Summer camp in another Council's area where they where having a "ordeal" ceremony, but permission could not be obtained from them to include him for some reason. That is what the SM told Me.

Now his next "Ordeal" opportunity happens to fall on his Grandmothers 80Th birthday and knowing him, even if I told him he was going to be going through the "ordeal " process, he would choose to stay home and honor his Grandmother. Big plans have been made for her that day. The Camp where this is to take place is over 180 miles from where I live and I could not get him there in time for the ceremony. They do it at the evening campfire.

But we have a big "Fall Camporee" coming up and I am on the Camporee Committee, how out of line would I be in inquiring if a "ordeal" ceremony could be held there? This is a Council wide Camporee and we will also have several troops from other Councils coming. It is being held in conjunction with our cities annual "Fest" and they want The BSA to be heavily involved with scouting skills, demonstrations, skits , camping and so on. They are bending over backwards to accommodate us. So we could have a "Ordeal" ceremony and explain to the audience what it was about thereby killing two birds with one stone. Make the "City Fathers" happy as well as making the scouts who would go through the "ordeal" ceremony happy. Any thoughts. I am just afraid that his "year" to go through the "ordeal" process will slip by and he will have to go through all of this again.

 

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Your son could not participate in the Ordeal (it's much more than just participating in a ceremony at the out of council summer camp because the Ordeal must be completed, per OA Policy, within one's home council's Lodge.

 

The Scoutmaster should have informed your son and all the other elected Scouts about their election if they were going to miss the Call-Out Ceremony (It sounds as if it is the Call-Out Ceremony your Scoutmaster was going to surprise him at). Your son, and all the other Scouts have one year from ELECTION (NOT Call-Out) to complete the Ordeal. You need to ask your Scoutmaster to find out from the Lodge when the next Ordeal will be held. The you need to get your son up to that Ordeal - for the FULL Ordeal - he won't be able to go through the ceremony without going through the rest of the Ordeal.

 

The Lodge MAY hold a fall Ordeal weekend (most Lodges do). It is generally a weekend of service at one of the Council's Scout Camps - it may be a relatively local camp - or may not (My Lodge holds it's spring Ordeal at the Council's Summer Camp - a 4 hour drive North - and it's fall Ordeal at the local weekend camp - a 45 minute drive Northwest). It is highly unlikely that the Lodge will do an Ordeal weekend at your Council's fall camporee - the Lodge members will be too busy leading their own units, and having fun at the camporee.

 

Forget about the Call-Out ceremony at this time - get those boys (assuming more than just your son was elected) to the next available and convenient Ordeal opportunity. If they haven't completed the Ordeal by December - they will all have to stand for election again. Don't delay - call your Scoutmaster and light that fire now. The Lodge has set the Ordeal schedule for the rest of the year - unfortunately, if that Ordeal weekend at that camp that is 180 miles away on the weekend of Grandma's 80th Birthday is the last one of the year, he'll need to go to that (and be there when every thing starts - not pull in in the middle of the day of the ceremony) or he will not become an arrowman this year.

 

CalicoPenn (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

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CalicoPenn,

 

I have just gotten back from our Monday night Scout meeting. Haveing never been in the OA, I am not that knowledgeable in what the difference is in "call Out" or "Ordeal". But they did bring up the "ordeal" situation up tonight because of a scheduling conflict. (some Canoeing trip/some Ordeal) They where talking about 2 boys being "elected" and one of them was my son. It is a Fri-Sat-Sun timeline. I asked if he missed the weekend in question when the next "Ordeal" weekend would be. I was told that that weekend would be the last "Ordeal" weekend this year. I figured if he missed this one he would have to start the election process all over again. I then explained the situation to him and he understands. So its either "ordeal" Or Grandma, he has to make the decision.

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Nothing in my post is a secret or is to remain a secret to a parent or a Scout. In fact, an official Order of the Arrow Fact Sheet readily available to anyone through www.scouting.org (the BSA's official website)without any special passwords also lists exactly what I did about what occurs in the Ordeal. It is the ceremony that is the mystical part of the experience, not the Ordeal itself.

 

You can view that fact sheet here: http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-512.html

 

Take a look at the section titled "Induction". It is made public knowledge precisely because of concerns that Crossramwedge made earlier about the OA being some sort of "secret society".

 

If after looking at this public fact sheet you still feel that this aspect of the Ordeal should remain a secret from parents and boys, please contact the National Lodge Chief to register your request.

 

CalicoPenn

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We had a similar situation with an adult. We submitted his name for OA induction, but he just couldn't make time in his schedule for an Ordeal (despite 3 scheduled opportunities). It took a lot of time and trouble to fill out the form and track down the information needed. Won't do that again!

 

Congratulations to your son, Crossram. It used to be standard procedure in my Council that scouts had no knowledge of their election until the big bad Indian came up and grabbed them during a Camporee campfire (aka, the "Tapout" or "Callout"). The "candidates" were then lined up and marched out of the campfire ring where they were informed they were now candidates for induction and given a fact sheet, their candidate's arrow and other information about upcoming ordeals. It's then up to the scout and his parents to register and get there on the appointed date. The others are correct in that the Ordeal must be completed within one year of election. There are no exceptions. After that, the election is void, and you start over. It's unfortunate that your SM appears to be somewhat inept and your son will have to deal with the consequences.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

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To the next available moderator, Please remove all of my post from this thread completely. Now that you have needlessly edited one post and butchered it in the process, there is no reason for them to remain. Its a real shame you didn't look at the OA Fact Sheet before editing the factual posting I provided.

 

Calico

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