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GonzoArrowman

Why no Lodge Chief position patch?

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Here's the way our lodge gives the Chief "special status"

 

We made a special lodge flap for the chief. (Has a different color border then the regular issue flap.

 

 

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Our lodge is considering doing something similar by creating flaps with the name of the office (lodge chief, chapter chief, ect.) located somewhere on the flap. Although I whould like to see an official patch for the position issued by national, this should work until then.

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Here is what most of the lodges in my section do in regards to the position patch to be used by the lodge chief:

 

In most councils the lodge chief is made a member of the council's Executive Board. Therefore the lodge chief wears the position patch to go with that position and also wears grey loops.

 

As a note, I believe it is national policy that councils may have up to two youth members on their executive board. In many councils these positions are occupied by the Lodge Chief and the President of the Venturing Cabinet (or whatever that is called these days).

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I didn't post this in my earlier posts but after reading some of the other posts, I beg to differ with some of the posts. According to the GOA, the lodge chief may become a member of the council executive board by serving on the camping and activities committee (I believe the adviser automatically becomes a member). By this, the silver loops go on and the numbers come off.

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LodgeChief,

I believe you are incorrect. A Scouter wears the loop color of the position of his primary registration. Just because you sit on a district or council committee doesn't mean you wear silver loops. Your primary registration has to be as a district or council scouter to wear silver tabs. I am an assisstant scoutmaster, associate lodge advisor and I sit on the council camping committee and the council NESA committee, but since my primary registration is at the unit level as an assistant scoutmaster, I wear red loops.

 

If I am incorrect in my posting I welcome correct information. Please cite the source.

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It seems that this post has split into two different questions; Why is there no Lodge/Chapter Chief Position Patch and When should different shoulder loops be worn. Please allow me try and shine some light into this discussion.

 

The first question of "Why no Lodge/Chapter/Section Chief position patch?" was answered by the 2004 National Vice-Chief who served on the National Advancement Committee (which designates which patches get made) at a National Leadership Seminar last year. The answer is quite simple. As a youth, you wear position patches to designate your position of responsibility which counts towards rank advancement. Neither Chapter/Lodge/Section/National Offices count towards rank advancement so they do not have position patches associated with the office. If you notice at NOAC's or other events when you might see a Regional or National Officer, they wear either a Region Committee or National Committee Patch because they are designated Youth representatives on the committee. That is also why they can wear Gold Shoulder Loops. If your scout executive appoints the Lodge Chief to the Council Committee, then the chief is entitled to all rights as any other council committee member and wear the patch/loops. Same holds true for any Council/Regional/National Venturing President.

 

The second question with the shoulder loops can be found in depth at one of the most in-depth online uniform guides I have been able to find online, http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/loops.htm .

Throughout time National has gone back and forth on when one should wear various shoulder loops. The CURRENT suggestion is that the shoulder loops "should match the official position you hold within the Movement and preferably the position in which dues have been paid and in which you function." Which can be interpreted to, one should wear the loop of the position in which they are currently serving as. This means that when you are being Assistant Scoutmaster, you should wear red... When you are being a member of a district/council committee, you should wear silver... If you are selected to serve as a section officer... you wear gold.

BUT, NOTE: Section Officers are only allowed to wear gold loops when they are within the geographic boundaries of their section. When a section officer goes to a regional/national event... they wear red since their next level of registration is with the unit.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this clears some things up...

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Ex,

thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

 

The position patch explanation certainly makes sense, I hadn't read national vice-chief's comments.

 

The loop explanation makes sense, too, but all the loop switching would be a bit of a pain. I'll think I'll stick to red. Thanks again.

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Where can I get the Lodge/Chapter Chief, Vice-Chief, and Secretary Patches? I know that they are un-official, but I'd like to purchase some of them to add to my collection.

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you can bring befor your EC that some lodges make a Chief patch with that years chief's name on it and issue one to the chief and sell the rest to make some for the lodge for the members to keep or to trade

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In our Lodge Plan Book, it states thet the Lodge Chief "serves as the youth member of the Outdoor Program Committee." Does this mean that he would be able to wear the silver loops? And if so, is this only at meetings of that committee, or does it extend to Lodge Meetings?

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"A Scouter wears the loop color of the position of his primary registration."

 

I believe they stopped that nonsense.

 

You wear the loop color appropriate for the position on your sleeve.

 

If you are wearing a troop leader position patch, you wear red loops.

 

If you are wearing a district/council position patch, you wear silver.

 

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Here is my take on this. When i was a youthful member I was once a chapter cheif and once a lodge Dance Team Cheif. While I was Dance Team Cheif IIRC I was also my Troop''s SPL so that is the position patch I wore; although I don''t think one was even available for Dance Team Cheif. Even if there was I''m doubtful that I would have worn one. However while I was Chapter Cheif I turned 18. I actually changed my registration to a new business explorer post. I also helped with a Troop as an ASM. I attended many events in which my primary purpose was to represent the Chapter and Lodge and a CC position patch would have been useful. I think that in active lodges this may still be the case to this day with lodge and chapter leadership being at least partly filled by arrowmen of transitional age and low to moderate responsibilities to their home unit.

 

I think I may have said in other topic that if the OA is to be a successful part of the Boy Scout program then it really does need youth that commit to it. I believe that in many cases Arrowmen are active in their troops for the express purpose so that they can also be a part of the OA. If older arrowmen focus 75% of their energy on the OA and only 25% on their home unit. This is far better than losing the youth completly to other activities as is such often the case of scouts that are over 16, regarless of their level of advancement. Active involvement in the OA will also lead to involvement in the Troop as long as the purpose of the OA is to honor scouts and promote scout camping. Any added impact to a troop should IMHO be considered icing on the cake. I know many will disagree with me on this. I base my opinion at least partly on the facts of participation that I have noticed in older scouts that also became arrowmen. In lodges and chapters where there has been a solid active OA program most all of the arrowmen that I have known were involved because of the OA. in lodges and chapters where there was or is not a solid active OA program older arrowmen simply leave scouting after either getting a DL or their Eagle rank.

 

My current chapter and in some ways lodge also are in the 2nd group as explained above. In the part of the chapter I live, where I am an assoc chapter advisor, we have about 6 registered youth arrowmen. The other county in this chapter is 40 miles away at the closest. Of these arrowmen 4 are in my current unit and two of these 4 are very close to acheiving their Eagle. One of these two is likely to leave the scouting movement after earning his eagle. Two of the other three have many other interests and activities so it is unlikely that they will be very active in scouting for much longer. If the chapter would have had an active program this may not have been the case. With such small numbers getting things going is presenting a huge challenge to me. I know that if we can get these youth active in the OA then they will also remain active in the Troop. Without one I''m doubtful that we will have the other. I wish the OA leadership at the region and national levels would consider this. If only mixed signals were not given about an arrowmans primary responsibility in the literature and in fact. (This is not the correct place to argue this point, however if someone want to disagree I''d be happy to expand onthis subject line either by PM or in the private forum.)

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This is not from my lodge, but I support it. Some may scoff at the illegitimacy of this, but...

 

http://curryfam.com/curryfam/devin/files/mowogo-LEC-patch2.gif

 

I've never been much of a stickler for following insignia rules--aren't there more important issues to deal with?

 

If a Lodge wants to make patches, they should go for it (or use the fakes from eBay). There of five versions of rank patches in the lodge, each one commissioned by the lodge and including their totem:

 

Lodge Chief

Lodge Vice-Chief

Lodge Secretary

Chapter Chief

Lodge Executive Committee

 

Seems reasonable to me. As for the shoulder loops, I just may have to get myself a pair of silver ones.(This message has been edited by Hillis)

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