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How's about them apples? Learn something new every day. As I roll the melody through my head it is indeed the same as the passage from 1812 Overture. Two questions:


What has God Save the Czar got to do with native american lore and a BSA honor society?


Why couldn't the founders have picked something easier to sing? Most times this is sung, people make a horrible hash out of it.

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Please don't think that I'm taking a cheap shot.


Have you ever listened to a group trying to sing the middle bit of the American National Anthem?

At times it can be a little hard on the ears.


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Oh I agree. The melody for our national anthem is also quite difficult to sing. If I could only remember the words....


One hates to give the French credit for anything these days, but the Marseilles as a national anthem does stir the blood.

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The US National Anthem uses the meter and tune of an English drinking song "To Anacreon in Heaven." Also, it is in 3/4 time, which is waltz time rather than marching time.


As far as the OA song, I suspect that Urner Goodman and Carroll Edson were throwing things together as fast as they could. Likely, they were just putting something together for their summer camp in Philadelphia. They never said "Let's plan a national honor society for Scouts which will go nationwide." There were many such organizations at the time and only years later was the OA chosen as the national one. I also understand that the ceremonies are similar to Masonic ceremonies of the time. I understand that Goodman and Edson were both Masons.


Likely Francis Scott Key and Goodman and Edson just picked something with which they were familiar and used it. The selection for national usage came much later.

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I'm not sure that FSKEy had anything to do w/ the melody. I'd have to check my history vs. folklore file... often lyrics are written independenty of the actual tune but dependentupon meter or time. Try sining the words to any ballad to another ballad's melody.


"Happy Trails to you...."



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The following site:





says this about Key and the Tune:


Key and the Tune


As early as 1806 Francis Scott Key adapted the tune to an earlier poem he wrote entitled "When the Warrior Returns" in honor of an American naval victory over the Barbary pirates. Hence, there is no doubt that Key was well acquainted with the tune, when in, September 1814, he saw the flag over Fort McHenry "by the dawn's early light." Soon after the battle, the poem and tune were published, a reminder of the American victory.


Of course, that isn't saying it is accurate, but the site seems to have gone into matters in pretty great detail(This message has been edited by NeilLup)

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