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True it is not a simple issue.The units I'm looking at are high adventure crews

with a strong focus on camping.The only actual change I would like to see is changing the first class requirement to include a Venture equivilent.The OA has

a strong focus on camping and should stay that way.OA would be part of path for

a camping focus crew.

I agree that this could be a logistical nightmare.I'd just like to see the deserving venturers have the opportunity.I beleive that throughout scouting we should emphasise more that OA is not an award but a camping focused service organization.I'm looking for people who are quality members who love camping and

and would supply some mature leadership in the Chapter and Lodge.The rosters are

becoming inflated with younger and younger new members who are not active.

I'd actually like to see candidate requirements stiffened to include some leadership history.This is unpopular at the top since quality lodge

requirements have a strong focus on numbers.

FOG thank you for your reply,this is the kind of feedback I see as relevent to what I've been talking about.Your concerns are very valid.


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I'm going to be leaving the forum so I can get back to my duties.It's been interesting to be a ranting maverick.I don't and won't do that in my official

position.I need to follow and support the Order as it is set up.I'm not in a position to make policy and I don't think I'd want to be the person dealing with this if it actually makes it to that level.

Note where I've been coming from:I'm spoiled in my contact with Venture and the OA I work with the cream of the crop and it's hard to relate to them using the OA

to boost their egos.Some of them participate in OA service projects even when not

OA members.

FOG has pointed out the other side where we could open up a door for those who

would abuse the privlages.Sadly he has very valid points.

Hope I didn't drive too many people away with my long drawn out ranting.



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It seems that this thread has more to do with Venturing then it has to do with the OA. I will start a spin off. However before I do I feel there is a few points that I want to address.

Yes I have served a member of a Summer Camp Staff.I have been active in making improvements to the summer camp program that our Council offers. The Camp has been staffed with both Scout and Non- Scout personnel.

While I love nothing better then spending time at camp and do get up there to do some of the much needed maintenance work and work needed to improve the camp facilities. I have to admit to spending more time finding money to improve the camp and improve the pay that we offer the camp staff. This has something to do with peanuts and monkeys.

I do understand the Venturing Program. Maybe not as well as I do the Cub Scout or Boy Scout Program. As both a District and a Council I think we are reaching out to make the Venturing program work.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

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I'm not sure as to whether venturing crews could hold elections for the OA (I'll take the senior forum members' word that they can't), BUT I understand that if you were elected as a boy scout, you can indeed be active in the OA with a venturer's membership. There are many venturers in my lodge, many of whom are of the vigil honor; some of whom hold important lodge leadership positions.


Also, I understand that in order for one to have OA membership, one must be active in his/her unit. Several scouts' troops in my lodge have broken up, or for whatever reason those scouts are no longer able to be active in a particular troop, so they in turn join a venturing crew, and retain their OA membership.

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I have been involved for fifteen years with a camp based Post, which was changed to a Crew when Venturing started . It was electing youth and adults to the OA until the change over to being a crew.

Here is part of a post I made from last March which includes a quote from the 91 OA handbook:


At one time you could be elected from an Explorer Post but you had to have earned First Class in Boy Scout troop, that kept girls out.. The essence of our existence is that we must be those campers- Boy Scout, Explorers, and Scouters who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in our daily lives. Order of the Arrow Handbook 1991 printing p.7. It was your fellow Scouts or Explorers that elected you to membership in the Order p. 31.


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