honor socities before oa??

[flyingember 10]

now, many lodges have a basis before oa came to its area, I'm doing research into connections to missouri groups.

 

now, many people here have access to local history faster than I do. (I've been through the usscouts program)

 

if your oa lodge has the usage of an eagle claw, leather pouch-like lanyard, assigns names to all members, history contains the words manhawka, or had its basis in st joe missouri or h roe bartle, uses paint to denote ranks within it (other than lodge 80), and you're outside the midwest I'd like to get a tip on where to search/who to contact.

 

I'm especially interested in south carolina and a possible connection.

 

kevin@flyingember.com

http://www.flyingember.com/mic.html for some results for the midwest so far.

[eisely 13]

Given that OA goes back to 1916, chances are that few or no other honor societies predate OA. Here is a link to a website somebody created about scouting honor societies. You will probably find this very informative.

 

http://usscouts.org/usscouts/honorsociety/honorscout.html

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

As developed as both of the sites were, I would predict many others are available.

 

I collect Scout paper and books but these Honor Societies are not represented in any of my literature. It does not mean that there is not any paper for these societies. Most likely, I have missed opportunities to acquire it. I have heard of these Societies since the fifties.

 

A Scouter told me of one group that wore their hats low over their eyes to indicate affiliation and to hide some type of mark worn on the forehead. He said that the groups were hard to clear out for the new OA/National alignment because of the sacred oaths of allegiance taken by the members. I was told that MOS was allowed to continue because there was a large concentration in the Kansas City/St. Louis area and many who were wealthy supporters of Scouting. I have often wondered about these stories and the dual programs of MOS and the OA.

 

FB

 

[WAKWIB 107]

Fuzzy Bear writes:"I was told that MOS was allowed to continue because there was a large concentration in the Kansas City/St. Louis area and many who were wealthy supporters of Scouting. I have often wondered about these stories and the dual programs of MOS and the OA."

 

Concerning Mic-O-Say.....It has never existed in St. Louis. But it was started in St. Joseph (which is about 50 miles north of Kansas City) in 1925. The founder, H.Roe Bartle was the Scout Executve for that Council (Pony Express Council). He had come up with the idea while serving as an Executive in Wyoming, where he was exposed to native American customs and ceremony. He was adopted into the one of the local tribes as an honorary member and given the name "Lone Bear"--which was the name of the chief that befriended Bartle. When started in St. Joseph, MOS replaced an existing organization called Manhawka. Bartle came to be the Kansas City Area Council, and MOS began there in 1929. When the KC council in Missouri, and the Kaw Council just across the State Line in Kansas merged in 1974, we suddenly had two honor societies--MOS and the Tamegonit Lodge of the Order of the Arrow. Now many folks in this area hold dual membership. As far as I know OA has never existed in St Joseph.

 

Based on what I've read on the usscouts.org site, there was an organization began in Kansas City in 1915 called the Tribe of Gimogash which predates OA by about a year...I think. It only lasted one summer in Kansas City though, the executive who started it by the last name of Medenhall, was transferred to Toledo and his "tribe" idea went with him, and apparently what remained of Gimogash in KC just folded up. I understand that Gimogash did continue in Ohio and in several other states for a number of years.

 

Bartle (Chief Lone Bear of the Tribe of Mic-O-Say) is pretty much a legend around here. He was a mayor here after his professional Scouting days, and was known as "the Chief" by Scouters and non-Scouters alike. The Kansas City Chiefs football team who suffered a defeat today at the hands of the Colts, got their name from Bartle's nickname.

 

 

[WAKWIB 107]

(This message has been edited by WAKWIB)

[scouting-nerd 10]

and just for your information, please note that the OA was established by Dr. E. Urner Goodman and Carl A. Edson at treasure Island scout camp in the summer of 1915 not 1916.

[Daveeby 10]

There are at least two honor programs that predate the Order of the Arrow and possibly if not probably more. The Tribe of Gimogash was created in mid 1914 and the Order of the Mystic Circle at least as early as 1914. Both programs were used in the Toledo Ohio Council. Gimogash was created in the Kansas City Council and it is likely that the Order of the Mystic Circle was as well. The scout honor society pages at the USSSP site were written by myself and Paul Myers with a lot of help from a lot of people. There are over 100 known programs that existed around the country. Among the biggest or most widespread of the early programs was Gimogash, Ku-Ni-Eh and the OA. A number of programs existed in multiple locations including Tipisa, Nani-Ba-Zhu, Mic-O-Say and others. Many of them had patches, neckerchiefs, beanies, etc. They also had their own ceremonies and purpose.

[Gischenaxin 10]

In the Nicolet Area Council (later part of Bay-Lakes Council) there was an honor group know as Black Diamond. I do not know much other than the "right of passage" was very intense. It would definetly cause litigation today.

 

Its last Chief is the father of the Camp Director at Bear Paw Scout Camp, Mountain, WI this summer. I will atttempt to gleen some of the details from the older gent before he goes to the "happy hunting ground." He is in his eighties.

 

The Black Diamonds were last seen in 1938. 1939 brought the new Chequah Lodge of the OA. The Chequah Lodge was absorbed into Awase 61 in 1974.

 

When I was a kid in the sixties there were a few old guys running around with the Black Diamond patch on their sleeve. I had no idea what it meant at the time.

[NWScouter 9]

It is not that there are honor societies that existed before the Order of the Arrow but there were many societies before the OA was adopted as the official honor society of the BSA. Many camps and councils had them by the fifties many were replaced by the OA and in many cases suppressed by national. National wanted only one and it was and still is the OA.