Concessions at Council P-W Derby.

[Buffalo Rain 10]

I'm a frequent reader and seldom post. This is my 3rd yr in Scouting, son is a Bear Cub.

 

Here's my issue.

 

The District was having trouble finding a "host" for the Derby. At the District Banquet, one of our newer Leaders volunteered our Pack to host the derby. (1 month notice till derby)

 

So we get a budget together. The budget consists mainly of Trophy, patches and mailing expenses. I asked if our Pack could do the Concessions. (Pack purchases concessions and any profits go to the Pack.) No problem, the Coucil Staff work up the Flyer for their website and for mailing. Flyer mailed out and put on Council Website.

 

At our Derby preplanning meeting on Sunday before next Saturdays race, the District Commish advised me to fill out a Unit Money Earning Application and send to Council. Just a formality.

 

I send it to Council.

Timeline: Tuesday before Saturdays race.

Council rejects the Application. Their reason is that Packs can not fundraise at District Events. The Scout Exectutive said all proceeds should go to the Council and expects the Pack to schedule the Derby, organize it, plan activities (beltloops & pins) and to run concessions.

 

We are charging entry fees to cover bugeted expenses. The concession expenses are not part of the District budget, because the Pack was going to realize the income.

 

Now 3 days before the race, when we should be finalizing small details, we have a big problem with the Pack making $.

 

The DE is stuck between the Scout Executive and the Pack. He's a great guy.

 

I really don't know what I'm going to do. I feel like if the Council wants to have all the $ they should provide help. No-one from Council will be a the Race or be helping with concessions.

 

It just seems very One Sided. Has anyone had this issue before???

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Jeff

[ScoutNut 147]

The DE might be a "great guy", but he should have verified things with his boss before giving his OK. Your DE dropped the ball badly.

 

"the Council and expects the Pack to schedule the Derby, organize it, plan activities (beltloops & pins) and to run concessions."

 

In most Councils, the District events are run by volunteers. This is not unusual. However, usually the DE will be in attendance, or at LEAST make an appearance to see how things are going.

 

Even though your Pack is the "host", that does not mean that all of the volunteers have to come from ONLY your Pack. You could have added an appeal for volunteers to the flier & done another appeal at both the Pack & Troop session of the month's Roundtable. You could have contacted area Troops to help out with staff (adult & youth). Hopefully you have all of that covered by now.

 

As for the concessions, it is not included in the budget for the event & your SE refuses to allow your Pack to be reimbursed thru the sales. Unless your Pack can afford to donate the cost to council, I would drop the concessions completely. Let your DE know this ASAP. If anyone asks, let them know that due to an oversight on the council's part, it did not get into the budget.

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

I would drop the concessions too. And I would also let the SE know that he needs to start looking for a new host for next year's event. No wonder he had a hard time getting someone to do it this year, if this is how people are treating willing volunteers!

[scouter-mom 10]

 

I asked my DE this afternoon about B.R.'s query, hosting/running the district (council also??) PWD and also running a concession whereby the Pack might raise funds for their pack. In our district there would not be a conflict.

 

I imagine that each council views this differently.

 

For instance, we have a troop organizing our District Camporee. The same unit is running a food concession and will be retaining any profit from the concession. The Camporee budget does not include the food concession. (BTW, this troop did the same thing last year.) There is no conflict between troop, district, and council over this, our Council has not objected or voiced any demands for concession "profits".

 

I agree with Scoutnut and Lisabob. Sounds like your pack will have to drop the concession. Bummer.

[nldscout 18]

If it was me I would do the concessions and keep the profits like planned. What are they going to do, disband you?

[Crew21_Adv 25]

Jeff,

 

Greetings!

 

I am really confused by your SE and your council.

 

Now possibly a Pack or Troop may corner the market at a District or Council event, but then they would have gotten their Unit Money Earning Permit Application in first. Plus volunteer to host a District event on short notice after all the other units passed up the opportunity to host an event.

 

A story about unit money earning I thought it was a riot a few years ago, when I attended a yacht show that was open to the public. I figured just walking around these yachts, speed boats and luxury craft would make me feel like a millionaire. Honestly, the show, demonstrations, and free samples were all great. But to my surprise, the parking (in a very large and very dusty open field) was 5.00 dollars. It was soooo dusty, I had to run thru the auto-car wash at the nearest gas station just to see thru the front window. But guess who was directing people where to park.

one of my neighboring troops. I think they made their entire annual budget and all the Scouts did was point. The only thing I could think of was. Gee, why didnt I get my Unit Money Earning Application in sooner!!!! These guys were genius!!!

 

You state the Pack is charging an entrance fee, but only to cover the cost of the District Pinewood Derby. I have seen this done on occasion, other times the host has solicited the local chamber of commerce for trophies or obtained funding from the host pack or troop.

 

If I may tell another story, this time about Pinewood Derbies. Many years ago, I ran the District Pinewood Derby inside of a new car showroom. (They moved their cars to the side and behind velvet ropes so they weren't scratched) Opening up the main portion of the floor for us. The local police brought a cruiser by with lights and sirens, a father and son member of the Junior Dragster Association brought their dragster to the Pinewood Derby. I wish they could have peeled out in the parking lot, but it was fun for them to hear the loud pipes and engine running practically on pure alcohol. On that occasion, we did not sell any concessions, because the new car showroom and management provided them. Hamburgers, hotdogs and sodas. When the pinewood derby cars were surrendered to the "pit crew", we gave the contestant a "matchbox car" for their submission. Some Cubbies were excited to watch the entire race, while some were only excited to watch their car compete. So the car lot provided a big screen TV to watch Cartoon network, and some specific child movies we brought, just about 75 feet from the race track. Finally, that afternoon the trophies and ribbons were purchased and donated by the car lot. Even though the car lot that hosted us, they did not plan on a cast-iron sale that day, but they did spark a lot of interest in the next year models. I've seen better Pinewood Derbies that put mine to shame, I've suffer through others, but I was pretty proud of myself after chairing that event.

 

Now about your event. The only fees you are charging will cover cost. But you are offering concessions? It does not sound like you are forcing attendees to purchase only your hotdogs or only your sodas. I hope they can bring their own snacks and sodas if they desire. I would imagine the concessions, that your Pack desires to offer are available to purchase, and that the attendees are not coerced or limited to just your concessions.

 

Further, your District also was down to one month and still attempting to identify a host for the Pinewood Derby this year.

 

I concur, your Commissioner recommended the Pack submit a Unit Money Earning Permit Application. The Application ask if your unit does maintain an annual budget, how will the money be used and if your Chartering Organization concurs with the application. Further, as the Application states, revenue should be applied toward an actual need in your unit program. Not just putting dollars in the Packs general bank account. (paying for advancement and recognitions in a Cub Scout Pack would certainly reduce the familys monthly and annual dues)

 

I do see on the Application that the District or Council Finance Committee has approval. I do concur that there are ethics involved in Boy Scouts selling or providing services. But I fail to see any restrictions in offering concessions at District events. Maybe I need to dive into more of my Scouting literature. (I dont have every BSA manual, but I do have a pretty good size Scouting library filling a few book cases). I could be missing this restriction in Money Unit Earning Application.

 

If council decided before your Pack volunteered to host the Derby or before your Pack submitted the application, that the Council would conduct a concessions booth. I have seen Council staff manning trading posts booths before. More power to them, they can staff a concession booth and benefit from the profit.

 

But if the Council decided they preferred to benefit from a concession, after your Pack has submitted a Money Earning Application. And further decided to refuse your application. GRRRRR Shame on them.. I do feel this is un Scout-like behavior on their part.

 

Just my 2 cents. If your Pack is hosting the event, if your Pack is offering concessions and not coercing obligated purchases, if the product or service you are providing is not violating any moral ethics. Then your Pack should have been approved in their Money Earning Application.

 

 

By denying approval of the application, it sounds like your District and Council just lost next years Pinewood Derby chair and host.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[SWScouter 34]

The troop my son and I are members of have run the concessions at our district's PWD the last few years. The troop will be running the concessions at District PWD again this year. It's a great fundraiser for the scouts. The troop also organized/hosted our District's Fall Camporee last year. We had concessions there too. The concessions were not part of either events budget and the district/council had no issues with the troop doing this as a fundraiser.

 

This must be a council thing. Personally, I would skip the concesstions.

 

SWScouter

[Oak Tree 15]

This looks like another example of the council thinking that the volunteers work for them. I'd be really furious with them. This is a very penny-wise and pound-foolish decision on their part. It's true that the DE dropped the ball, but council should find a compromise.

 

Path of least resistance - drop the concessions.

 

Path of righteous indignation - do the concessions anyway. As nldscout says, what will council really do?

 

Path of making council feel the pain - drop the entire event. Tell them that if they're going to micromanage things this badly, they can run the event themselves.

 

Path of finding a loophole - get some auxiliary group to do the concessions; maybe your CO. They can always donate the money to the pack later.

 

Sometimes it seems like the concepts of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" are a foreign language.

 

Oak Tree

[Lisabob 13]

then there's also the path-of-passive-aggression: run a concession stand just outside the doorway to the event!

 

Buffalo, whatever you choose to do about the concessions, make sure to voice your serious displeasure to the SE about his dumb move here.

[Gonzo1 10]

I disagree with LisaBob and others on this one. If council said NO, then No means NO. When the DE or other district or council staff show up, offer to buy them a cup of coffee, but then remind them that you can't sell coffee. On the other hand, have some Girl Scouts selling cookies, it's not their event, council can't say no to them.

 

This is a good time to remind the newbie about NOT volunteering the unit for anything. Short notice, no $$ and frustrated adults. 100 lashings with a wet noodle!!

 

At the next roundtable, have lots of unit leadership present and voice their concern over this situation.

 

In our area, nits that run district/council event do so in order to earn money and run the event.

[ScoutNut 147]

"In our area, nits that run district/council event do so in order to earn money and run the event."

 

 

In our council we do not run district/council events as money raisers for either the district/council or the unit(s) running it. If the event comes out on the plus side, great. However, we are more than happy when it simply breaks even. We, the volunteers, or "nits" as you put it, run the event in order to provide a great program opportunity for the boys.