New pattern of responsibility

[packsaddle 753]

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin

[boomerscout 35]

If a parent can backhand their child for back talk, why shouldn't I, a "reasonable person" be able to do the same to the same child?

 

Sounds good to me. Remember, it takes a village to raise a child

[AZMike 173]

Or why couldn't one backhand the parent of said child? He or she is ultimately responsible for the child's behavior, right? Why not wallop him or her and then tell the parent to make sure their child's behavior changes.

 

The other parent could be bigger than the person doing the striking, of course, which means you can't hit him out of fear. Best to be like most bullies and only hit people who are smaller than you.

 

Whenever I hear a parent describe how their dad used to smack them whenever they misbehaved, and how they do the same to their kid, I always think, well, if it didn't correct the behavior after the first time you hit them, what makes you think doing it over and over will help? At some point, it;s not really about changing the child's behavior anymore.

 

 

[acco40 95]

Thank God most children are a very resilient bunch - they seem to do fine even with screwed up parents.

 

Some behaviors persist whether or not they are helpful. Spanking or hitting children is one. There is no research that proves striking a child makes him or her more obedient, study harder or become more polite. Often the opposite is true; hitting a kid can contribute to becoming obstinate, surly, oppositional or violent.

 

I am not saying every parent who hits his or her kid is a child abuser. My experience has been that when parents become physical, its usually so theyll feel better not to educate the child. Personally, I am far from a perfect parent. The few times I have spanked my kids, I usually did it when I was the one who needed the time out. If parents waited 24 hours to spank their children, few would ever follow through.

 

I will often hear from parents who say, I was hit as a kid and I turned out OK. Maybe. I, too, was hit if I mouthed off or was disrespectful. I didnt become a serial killer, but the times I got cracked never made me respect what my parent was saying or listen more closely.

 

Some parents tell me they resent being told whether they have the right to strike their child. Ive had moms and dads get up into my face and rant about their God-given right to hit their children. Its not about God or Scripture, but parenting. Hitting may instill fear in kids, but I have yet to see it result in genuine respect. Setting limits? Absolutely. Not giving chance after chance; hey Im with you. But striking or hitting is usually done when parents have lost their temper or are out of control.

 

There are a few moms or dads who make ritual out of spanking. They have the child go to a cupboard, pull out the paddle, pull down their pants and lay over the chair. While it can be argued that this type of punishment is not impulsive, it is difficult to consider this behavior as positive parenting. Instead it is ritualized humiliation. This type of corporal punishment may be as American as french fries, but the whole process reinforces, Ive got you, youre not going anywhere and I can do whatever I choose on my timetable. Not exactly a paragon of respect.

 

A parent does not have to be bigger or stronger than his or her offspring to engender compliance. Ive seen some moms barely 5 foot tall have adolescent boys a full 10 inches taller submit to their mothers authority, because mom was consistent and loving when she punished.

 

Sure, its easier to raise a child if there is a parental presence obviously bigger and stronger in the home. Mom or dads voice is raised, the scowl comes over his or her face and the kids scamper. This is about as violent as setting limits would ever need to be. Parents get compliance, like teachers, from setting an example of mutual respect and being clear with both expectations and consequences. Mitchell Rosen, M.A.

[DeanRx 69]

Acco... nowhere in my post did I state that backhanding a child was OK. There is a huge difference in corporal punishment and abusing a child.

 

The use of corporal punishment is to cause compliance through a temporary, but non-harmful means of negative reinforcement. Its no different that a cop using pressure points to direct a detainee into a cell or a police car.

 

If I tell my 5 year old not to run into the street multiple times and he doesn't bother to listen, he still does it after loss of privledges, or is difiant and goes ahead and does it again (as in a power struggle) - you bet he's gonna feel it in the seat of his pants or by a pinch on the arm, etc.

 

It gets the point across. It puts emphasis on WHY the direction of the parent needs to be heeded. The fact that is physically uncomfortable is the same reason your body hurts when you put your hand on a hot stove.... Its a physiological response in the body that says, "Hey - don't do that anymore, because when you do, you get hurt."

 

You don't want to spank your kids - fine. But please respect my right to do so. It does NOT take a damn village, it takes a parent willing to use multiple methods to impart good behavoir and discipline in their child of a level and type that the child is able to understand.

 

Do you spank a 2 year old? no, probably not. They don't have the mental capacity to understand the cause and effect of the punishment. Do you spank a 4 to 7 year old? yes, only if you have to when other methods fail. They KNOW right from wrong and can equate the unpleasurable sensation with their actions. Jr High aged? I haven't used it yet. I have made my 11 y/o get in the front lean and rest position and hold it until he appologized to his younger brother for something he was being beligerent about. Took him about 60 seconds to decide he didn't like the burning in his arms, before he made it right with his brother. Is that abusive? Maybe. It certainly isn't going to scar a kid for life.

 

As I said before. There is a HUGE difference between corporal punishment and abuse. I use these methods on my children very sparingly. I would be livid if any other adult in authority tried to use them on MY child, and I would never think of using such tactics with a youth that is not my own son.

 

Parenting is a delicate balance between carrot and stick. But sometimes because of repeat offense, time, circumstances, etc... the stick needs to be in the bag o' tricks. 99% of the time, the fact its just in the realm of possibilities is enough to command respect and adherance. If the child tries to call your bluff - then you have to be willing to follow through. Otherwise, you've failed as a parent.

 

Dean

[Horizon 97]

Dean:

 

The hypothetical posted was "were I to see anyone smack their kid across the face" not "is it ok to spank your child."

 

That isn't a spanking, and it sounds like a fast, anger driven reaction by a parent - not a planned and understood punishment.

 

Once a child is 7, they are old enough to get delayed punishment - instant physical starts dropping in effectiveness, and instead revocation of privileges start having a much greater impact. The simple withholding of parental approval is sufficient for most children in a good home.

 

By the time a boy is in Boy Scouts, he is too old to "smack across the face". When I was 15 my father started to lose his temper with me, and asked if I "wanted to be slugged" - my response was that I could not stop him, but it would have zero long-term effect on me. He listened. He had tried the same with my brother, and my brother distanced himself from him for 15 years.

[acco40 95]

There is a HUGE difference between corporal punishment and abuse. I use these methods on my children very sparingly. I would be livid if any other adult in authority tried to use them on MY child, and I would never think of using such tactics with a youth that is not my own son.

 

That is what puzzles me. Either it is okay to use corporal punishment or it is not. I don't understand why you feel it is okay for you to use corporal punishment on your child but not me. Conversely, why would you be livid is another adult in authority used the exact same punishment for the exact same offense on your child. It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

 

[Peregrinator 85]

I don't understand why you feel it is okay for you to use corporal punishment on your child but not me.

 

Because I have direct authority over him and you do not ... you have only the authority that I delegate to you.

 

I rather suspect that when parents sign their kids up for scouts they don't give scoutmasters the authority to use corporal punishment.

 

I don't understand how this isn't completely obvious.

[Eamonn 61]

And from where I sit I don't understand how it isn't completely obvious that striking, hitting, slapping, harming others, be they your kid, the kid next door or the little old lady down the road. Or worse still me! -Is just plain wrong.

 

Wen it comes to teaching our children I fail to see how "Do as I say or I'm going to hurt you." Can ever be seen as a good example.

Ea.

[acco40 95]

But why the exclusivity to parents? If corporal punishment is beneficial to the child, why withhold others from granting benefit to your child?

[Peregrinator 85]

But why the exclusivity to parents?

 

Because parents have authority over their children. One might as well ask why the exclusivity of punishing crimes belongs to the State. Why shouldn't everyone have the right to put criminals on trial and then put them in prison?

 

If corporal punishment is beneficial to the child, why withhold others from granting benefit to your child?

 

Because others don't have authority over my children, and (to put it in very practical terms) because others don't know my children and don't know which punishments will work and which ones won't.

[Peregrinator 85]

And from where I sit I don't understand how it isn't completely obvious that striking, hitting, slapping, harming others, be they your kid, the kid next door or the little old lady down the road. Or worse still me! -Is just plain wrong.

 

It's not obvious that it's just plain wrong because it isn't wrong, at least where parents and their children are concerned. It's a question of authority.

[BadenP 93]

Pere

 

If parents have to show/prove their authority over their children by beating them then they really are not very good parents to start with. Your own Catholic religion teaches violence is never the answer especially in dealing with your children, and hitting, beating or slapping your children around is doing them violence, morally, spiritually, or legally. Showing parental authority NEVER justifies violence to children in any form.

[Peregrinator 85]

by beating them

 

Who said anything about "beating" them?

 

Your own Catholic religion teaches violence is never the answer especially in dealing with your children

 

No it doesn't.

[Horizon 97]

The types of "corporal punishment" described in this thread:

 

"were I to see anyone smack their kid across the face"

"striking, hitting, slapping, harming "

"I can think of a few things kids would do that where getting smacked in the mouth would be a just punishment"

 

Where do you draw the line on corporal punishment?

 

Personally neither of my kids was spanked past the age 4 or so. It was not necessary, and I had better tools by then plus an ability to communicate.