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My mom is a Strip Tease Dancer

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Most of the time if you go around looking for something to condemn or criticize, you'll find it. Even if you don't know anything about it.

Peregrinator, by the time we noticed what was going on, it was over. 5-10 seconds tops for the whole event. If laughter which came naturally for us offends you, sorry.


OGE, it's completely subjective. Eye of the beholder and all that. I guess the court continues to struggle with the idea.


Edit to add: I kind of like this artist: http://www.patriciapiccinini.net/


Google image: "The Young Family"

Cool!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

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In this case its the 7 wise men in Albany who will deceide if this is art or not.


Funny, that this should appear on the news at this time. Last saturday morning at about 230 in the morning I got called out to do an arraignment on a Felony Drunk Driver, when I asked what she did for a living(part of bail determination) she stated she was a dancer in a gentlemans club that is in the same town as the one in the story. She was a very nice lady except for the fact she blew .17 and had her 2 kids in the car.

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Peregrinator, by the time we noticed what was going on, it was over.


I'm sorry, that's not how it sounded from your initial description. You seemed to be saying that you and your fellow leaders were laughing, but the scouts didn't even notice because they were too busy looking at the bikini-clad girls. Did I misunderstand?

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Yes, the entire event lasted as long as it takes for a person to walk past a van. We were still paying some fees and getting a receipt and the boys were loaded and waiting for us to get in. When we rounded the van we noticed all those faces pressed against the window and then, as she walked on into the crowds, we figured out what they were looking at. The effect was completely comical. It reminded me of restaurants in Shanghai in which aquariums full of turtles and frogs and other delicacies were beside the entrance and once you were inside and ready to order, all those turtles and frogs would be piled on top of each other staring at you through the glass in unison, all those eyes, perhaps thinking, "what did that guy order, am I next?" Completely comical. Laughter was irresistible.


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Eagledad says:


One more story, NJ will point out that I always seem to get to homosexuality in these post. Im not sure that he will understand that to me the immorality of being gay doesnt rise above most other immoralities discussed in this forum.


I do understand that. I know people in "real life" who believe the same thing, though not very many any more. But do you understand that I do not believe homosexuality is immoral?


That doesn't mean I approve of what the two teenage boys in your story were doing. They were involved in something that they most likely aren't ready for, they may have been risking their lives, they weren't showing respect for themselves or each other. But that would also have been the case if they had been of different genders.


And just to try to nudge this back in the direction of Scouting, so what we have here is that you think something is immoral, and therefore it is right to exclude its practitioners from Scouting, while I think that thing is not immoral, and therefore it is immoral to exclude those people. A way exists to accommodate both of those viewpoints, in different units, but you don't support it and the BSA won't do it. That's what I have a problem with.

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Why do the vast majority of popular female (and male for that matter) have above average looks? Does that make them sing better?


Why do the vast majority of movie actors have above average looks? Does that make them act better?


Why do advertisements use above average looking models and actors?


The reason is simple - it sells more music, movie tickets and improves sales. We don't bemoan George Clooney or Julia Roberts their lucrative movie deals and call it immoral for cashing in on their looks.


So why do we look down on strippers? Do I want my daughter to aspire to that profession? No. Why? I'm guessing many reasons - stigma, appeal to base instincts, possible association with undesirable characters, limited "shelf life" so to speak, etc.


For a normal person who has been to a "gentleman's club", nude beach or whatever - one quickly realizes that the uniqueness or aura of the situation quickly fades - well not so quickly sometimes. :)


For myself, I've gone to strip clubs in my younger days (20's & 30's) for bachelor parties, when an associate leaves the workplace, etc. but it is kind of like going to a car dealership and paying to see all sorts of really nice vehicles but realizing that you are not allowed to drive or buy any. It actually gets somewhat depressing after awhile.


Heck, I work for a defense firm. I remember thirty years ago some felt that was immoral - making weapon systems whose sole purpose was to kill people (as some believed). My son's wrestling and football coach (his part time jobs) had a full time job as a bar bouncer. I had no issue with that. Eventually, he was able to use his teaching degree and drop the bar bouncer gigs.

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scoutingagain.....that is a shame......We have one right next door to the Hooters.


So what none of the men in your community drink beer and enjoy a pretty women.....Oh thats right you guys drive to the neighboring town, who has lower moral standards than your, to do it.


They run drug stings in my neighborhood quarterly.


They put a cop on the corner to act like a dealer and they then bust all of the folks coming in to buy......Ya know what......more than half of them are from very morally up standing communities that don't tolerate such things.....


Same goes for the prostitution stings.....most of the johns busted are not from our neighborhood.


So you can wave your moral high standard all ya want.....I know better. The guys that live in those communities just go elsewhere for their unsavory lusts and wants.....



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Eagledad - "See NJ, the frog doesnt think the water is hot.


Not sure what this means, I guess I'm the frog?



qwase - "That said, if your profession is not one where you'd bring your kid, you probably have some thinking to do"

Really, the cop should take jr. to the homicide investigation scene? The surgeon should take Jr. into the OR? The corrections officer, the pyschologist that counsels suididal pateints, shall I go on... not sure of the correlation there...




Tampa Trutle - "I realized this once when I was starting to go to a *ahem* "special store" for a certain outfit for my lovely wife. "I can't go in there! I am a scout leader."

Why not? Was what you were going to do illegal? Now, I wouldn't condone wearing your scout shirt into sure an establishment, but if that's your thing with you and the Mrs., that's your business.



Eagledad - "So she waited in the car to see what was going on thinking it might be someone trying to break into the building through her window. After a few minutes, two teenage boys walked out of the corner pulling up their pants."

Now, I agree with you on this. However, I find it interesting that those that believe one should wait until the confines of marriage to become "active" expect their view to be respected, but do not offer the same respect to those who have a different view point. The fact these two youth were in an ally committing a homosexual act speaks less to me about the moral decline of society, and more about a society that condems these youth into hiding and shameful exploration of their sexuality because they don't have support from home, church, community to have an open discussion about HUGE issues in their life!


qwazse - "And regarding the polished view of Thai bar girls, I met a woman who was widowed thanks to AIDS from one such "respectable" sex worker."

Nowhere in my post was I advocating that prostitution is a "clean" business, nor respectable. My point regarding Thialand and the Buhdist religion was to point out that one religions taboo is another religion's acceptable practice.


nldscout - "Funny, that this should appear on the news at this time. Last saturday morning at about 230 in the morning I got called out to do an arraignment on a Felony Drunk Driver, when I asked what she did for a living(part of bail determination) she stated she was a dancer in a gentlemans club that is in the same town as the one in the story. She was a very nice lady except for the fact she blew .17 and had her 2 kids in the car."

Would it have been better if she was a JUDGE and blew a .17 with her two kids in the car? Not sure what the heck here means of employment have to do with the fact she was driving drunk and endangering the lives of herself, her offspring, and other people. We had a Cardinal from the Catholic Church blow a .23 at a DUI check point here in San Diego a few weeks back. Should probably go light on him... respectable profession and all...



Bottom line - all this is WHY we must remember BSA is NOT a Judeo-Christian organization. Yes, they are VERY cozy with a few denominations, but outside or the gays and athiest policies, the church(es) do NOT run the BSA. Its also WHY I consider myself to be a spiritual Christian, but rarely (outside of attending some scout functions) step foot inside a church.


The double standard and hypocrisy run too deep for me to put up with anymore.




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Not waving our moral standard at all, just pointing out the spectrum of acceptance of sexual morality. Yes, if one travels 10 - 15 miles north of the city one can find a Hooters. The only one in Mass that I know of, not that I'm searching them out ;).

The Hooters is on the same stretch of Rt. 1 where the traditional exotic dance emporiums are. It is not an establishment that would be accepted on main street. Yet as I pointed out, in my travels in the south, they seem to be as accepted as a Howard Johnson's would be. The kind of general acceptance of what some would consider an immoral establishment that Barry refers to. I personally don't have a strong opinion either way.


So Hooters and Tilted Kilts are considered inappropriate for family fair, yet in Mass we also recognize the legal marriage of two people of the same gender. So are we morally superiour or headed down the road of decandant decay as some are so concerned about?





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"qwase - "That said, if your profession is not one where you'd bring your kid, you probably have some thinking to do" "

DeanRx, Yeah, I caught that one too. It wasn't exactly the most thoughtful comment was it? That comment works if you're surrounded by convenience store operators or store clerks something but there are plenty of occupations involving risks to which no one should consider exposing their child.


As for frogs, I was wondering about that one too. I thought it was ME, or maybe NJ, it WAS confusing.


Tampa Turtle, IMHO, was on the edge of offering TMI, lol. One of those cases where you'd kind of like to know more but aren't perhaps ready to take on that kind of risk, lol.


The two teenaged boys: The only thing she knew was that there were two boys there and they walked out doing something with their pants. All other conclusions were prejudice. They could have just changed clothes, or swapped pants. They might have merely relieved themselves against the fence or perhaps pulled an unsavory joke or something. She knew they were 'high risk' and had a preconceived idea about their character and her prejudices conveniently filled in the blanks.


DeanRx, you don't have any choice but to put up with the hypocrisy. It's not just in BSA. It's cross-cultural and available everywhere. Sorry fella, you're not going to be able to get away from it.

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So who is going to be more messed up as an adult???



The kid who is completely protected from women or men who are in shorts and ripped up tshirts??? or the kid who goes their and eats with the family???



The horn ball scout dad is a bible thumper, He attends the CO as a member....He is a complete dirt bag, The absolute best example of the worst of being an American citizen.....



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My Apologies, I guess the metaphor is more common here.


From Wikipedia: The Frog in the Pot

The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually.



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