Twocubdad 665 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 As they should have, Barry. If our goal is to teach young men to be good citizens; that "obedience" includes working to change things you don't like, then this Scout and Bando should be applauded for having well-learned a basic lesson of Scouting. I don't think this is a hollow gesture. Sooner or later BSA will realize this policy is costing them their seed corn. A mini research survey -- I am very proud that among my brothers, sons and cousins, every male over the age of 16 is an Eagle Scout. Three of us are +/- age 50, all the rest are between 17 and 27. We recently gathered to present my cousin's son his Eagle. Duing the weekend this topic came up. Of the eight Eagles, six strongly disagree disagree with the current policy. One favors a local option policy and one agrees with the current policy. I'm sure you can guess the ages of those who oppose the policy. All the younger Eagles, including the one receiving his that day, said they doubted they would support Scouting in the future if they current policy remains in place. It would be interesting to see real research data on the opinion of Scouts (both Eagles and not) graduating from the program. My hunch is we are producing a generation of Scouts who, like my sons and cousins, enjoyed Scouting, appreciate is positive elements, but will not support Scouting as adults as long as the current policy is in place. In a number of ways, this is a generational issue. When the anti-gay marriage amendment was on the ballot here, our Speaker of the House, one of the leading proponents of the amendment admitted such. He predicted the amendment would be overturned in 20 years (which I thought was a good reason to vote against the amendment -- don't tinker with the constitution for transient reasons). He's right. Ultimately BSA either change their policy or become a marginal, anachronistic organization only found is small pockets of the country. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 >>As they should have, Barry. If our goal is to teach young men to be good citizens; that "obedience" includes working to change things you don't like, then this Scout and Bando should be applauded for having well-learned a basic lesson of Scouting. Link to post Share on other sites
BSA24 10 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If it were up to me, every Eagle badge received at National and every letter of resignation over an issue would be carefully stored away with identifying information. Names would not be removed from roles of recipients due to their dissent or their desire to leave. Instead, I would write them back, and I would tell them that I understand they disagree and feel strongly that they cannot be associated with us at this time. I would tell them that we will never deny them their award. I would also tell them that if things change in the future, to please reconsider. If any particular condition changed in the future, I would find the cataloged medals and letters and try to make contact with them and let them know. And then I would ask them to rejoin us and help us out. I'd then have their medals returned to them. I would never want to be punitive toward someone for expressing themselves. Just because someone tosses a medal at you in outrage doesn't mean they did not earn it. They still are the person who earned it. It is theirs to throw away. Our country would not be stronger if we expelled all of the liberals or all of the conservatives. We each fulfill our own purpose within our society. All voices together are needed. That people are afraid they will be expelled if their opinions become known is probably the worst criticism of BSA that anyone could make. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 It would be interesting to see real research data on the opinion of Scouts (both Eagles and not) graduating from the program. It would only have some credit if it was an independent study.. After this recent fabricated 2 year secret panel "review", I wouldn't trust any research data coming from BSA on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Too bad Bando's comments at his COH weren't followed up by that District Executive making his Friends of Scouting pitch. He probably could have gotten away with that easier, since it would have been a more appropriate use of the COH than a political pitch by the Eagle honoree. Link to post Share on other sites
Bando 21 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I'm sorry, it seems to me you have next to no idea what an Eagle COH is for. First, your assertion the SM has the right to end it and "not award" the medal if a scout disagrees with the membership policy. Now your idea that it's a vehicle for FOS and the District. Wrong and wrong. And it's unfortunate this policy has so poisoned your ability to comprehend the BSA program, much less be courteous, kind, or cheerful in expressing yourself to fellow scouters. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Hello Bando, You don't mind acting out your own willfulness, but you don't seem to realize other people can do that as well. As I noted earlier, had I been your Scoutmaster, I might have ajourned the Court Of Honor after your political speech without awarding you the honor. Perhaps I might have awarded you the Eagle at a later regular Court of Honor, along with the Tenderfoot and 2nd Class awards. Or perhaps I wouldn't have awarded it to you at all. Perhaps the District Committee would choose to mail you your award. If you want to organize against BSA politically, you are certainly entitled to do that. I have no objection whatsoever. But organize your own forums --- don't hijack an awards ceremony to broadcast your political opinions. That is rude and disrespectful. Link to post Share on other sites
Bando 21 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Pardon me if I choose to no longer entertain your angry, biased, nonsensical hypothetical. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Ahh. So willfulness only looks like fun when you are the one being willfull and others are being tolerant of your willfulness. When others impose their willfulness on you, it's not fair. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yeah, SP, why are you so angry about what an Eagle Scout did at his own ceremony? Also, it hardly seems appropriate to say he "hijacked" his own ceremony. (Especially when "hijackers" are people who kill people, thousands at a time in one incident I can recall.) Bando just made a speech at his own Eagle ceremony. Presumably, in his troop as in mine, Eagles are encouraged to give a speech at their own ceremony. So it's just an issue of him saying something you don't like. And based on his description (which is the only one we have available), he did it in a brief and respectful way. Sounds fine to me.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter) Link to post Share on other sites
nldscout 18 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 A good post from an eagle on why he wouldn't turn his in. http://unwashedadvocate.com/2012/07/26/a-word-about-awards/ Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 When I was an active Scoutmaster, I worked with the Eagle Scout and his family to create an ECOH that they wanted. I gave them examples, ideas and sometimes my opinion but I for one applaud Bando for expressing an opinion at his ECOH that showed his love and appreciation for the organization. If he could care less about the BSA, why would he talk about its membership policy. Now, it he turned it into a political rally for a candidate or a sales pitch for something he was selling, I'd highly suggest he remove that from his ECOH. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 It's well established that Eagle Courts of Honor, like other Courts of Honor are troop functions. It's intended to carry out Scouting purposes. Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Which is what? Yes they are troop events. Read BSA publication 33588 and it will state that the Eagle Scout and his parents should be involved in planning the event. Link to post Share on other sites
Bando 21 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I guess I'm confused as to why a brief tangent on inclusive scouting in an ECOH speech by the honoree is "political" and not consistent with "scouting purposes." Or why it should be grounds for an irritated adult to stop the young man, grab the medals, close the Court, and send everyone home (which far better fits the definition of hijacking, but I digress). I guess this is just emblematic of how much this adult issue can be and is projected onto the scouting experiences of young people. It's sad. Link to post Share on other sites
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