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Councils can not secede, they are part of the National organization. Some new groups might form but until they are tested and prove to be viable alternatives the majority will stay with the BSA. The LDS basically already have their own exclusive scouting program and would continue on the same no matter what the rest of the organization does.

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That is my point, it would be the LDS splitting not the other way around, but really as I said the LDS already has their own unique scouting program, with all the benefits of the BSA materials and facilities why would they split? Especially due to the fact if the BSA were to make any changes in their program/policies in regards to gender or lifestyle the LDS would be exempt from following those changes. It would be much more of a hassle for them to build another program from scratch, not to mention losing the benefit of becoming an Eagle Scout.

The LDS is here to stay in spite of a 12 year old quote one individual may have made.

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BadenP, or anyone, if BSA did split with LDS taking out one chunk and the remainder being the rest of us, which part would the Congressional Charter go with I wonder?



The Charter is fluff. Congress stopped issuing them in the 1990's.

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Does the LDS Church sponsor troops in Canada or Great Britain? I didn't see any troops in Venezuela when I was a missionary. I imagine the BSA will get along without the LDS just as well as Scouts Canada.

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The Congressional Charter is fluff?! Well, if you wish to ignore/gloss over any promises or expectations implied in the issue of such a Charter, then I guess that is what you would say.



An organization can meet all of the same goals and transparency without having a Congressional Charter. The fact that it is a Congressional Charter doesn't give you anything extra but some prestige.


Again, Congress hasn't issued any new charters in almost 20 years. Did that stop youth organizations and not-for-profits from being launched? Does that make the ones launched in the last 20 years less worthy than those who have one issued before 1992?


(This message has been edited by Eolesen)

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This new organization y'all are licking your chops over - a Boy Scouts with girls and atheists and no reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance and openly gay Scouters and kids announcing their sexual preference, and no pesky Mormons or Evangelicals or orthodox Jews or orthodox Catholics (or Orthodox Catholics, for that matter), or boys who want to be in a group that is just male for just a few times a month - sounds pretty interesting. Since it is so different from the BSA, why not start your own organization ("Scouting USA" or whatever, since they won't be the "Boy" Scouts anymore)?


If it will be as popular with mass American society as you say, people will vote with their kids and put them in SUSA instead of the BSA, and you will get all these grants from the celebrities and pop stars and bloggers who post tweets about the big bad BSA. You know they're just itching to throw some big bucks your way to support the new, politically correct scouting organization.


The traditional BSA will whither on the vine, and as their grants and scout fees and corporate contributions quickly dry up when Americans are faced with a choice between the two groups, you will be able to snatch up the camp properties and such at a low price when the BSA goes kaput.


Or is that not the way you see things going?



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> I don't see that the Congressional charter is of any practical significance beyond an endorsement of Scouting by a political body.


But I suppose liberals who are unhappy with Scouting may wish to repeal that token. Perhaps you should have gotten Obama to do that in 2009 when he was enacting much of the homosexual agenda in Congress while neglecting the economy.

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SeattlePioneer says, "I don't see that the Congressional charter is of any practical significance beyond an endorsement of Scouting by a political body."


In that case LDS should have no problem just walking away from the charter and starting their own non-congressionally-chartered organization. No problem.

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"I don't see that the Congressional charter is of any practical significance beyond an endorsement of Scouting by a political body."


Really?! Well, I suppose if you apply post-1972 "standards" then I guess you could justify that statement. But let's take a look at what Congress actually endorsed when it granted the Congressional Charter...


In the preface to "Scouting for Boys," B-P writes:


"Therefore the aim of the Scout training is to replace Self with Service, to make the lads individually efficient, morally and physically, with the object of using that efficiency for the service of the community."


Earlier in the preface B-P offers the following eloquent description of Scouting:


"It is, in a word, a school of citizenship through woodcraft."


For many years after this, Scouting remained true to this vision. Consider the following, which appeared in the "Handbook for Scoutmasters" for many years:


"THE AIM OF SCOUTING - SCOUTING trains for CITIZENSHIP by inculcating in the boy, from within instead of without, the qualities of Character, Health and Strength, Handicraft and Skill, and Service to Others." (CAPS in the original text)


In 1972, "Aim" became "Aims" and the vision of Scouting became muddled. This was followed by the "Mission Statement" we are familiar with today:


"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."


There is nothing of citizenship here! This is something that any boy, Scout or not, can get in any church, temple, synagogue or mosque! So if the program we are now offering is not the program we promised the American people in seeking the Congressional Charter, and the Charter is now "fluff" that we as an organization can dishonor at our choosing (being a private organization and all), then we should probably be honest about that fact and disavow the Charter entirely!(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

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