AZMike 173 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 "Yet your morality and religious doctrine outweighs my morality and religious doctrine. How is that right? " Why, because I was born this way. If I am as discriminatory and shortsighted as you say, it couldn't be because I chose to be that way. Who would willingly choose to be as big a jerk as you say I am? So obviously, my puritanical nature is innate, and you have to just accept it. Moreover, you should probably celebrate it. My sheer nastiness is an integral thread in the diverse and wonderful tapestry of our American society, and it should not be reviled, but my a-holish behavior should instead be considered just one more lovely trait that goes to make up the wonderful creation that is Me. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I know this is going to make Brent nervous but I'm going to reinforce what he has written and note that I'm willing to consider the possibility that the entire concept of 'liberal' Christianity is bogus. There simply may be no such thing. If anything, what some of us would like to think of as 'liberal Christianity' may really not be Christianity at all. It might be something else dressed up with 'some' of the parts of Christianity that feel good but without the unpleasant or objectionable parts, and nice persons who want to be part of the 'broad umbrella' of Christianity may claim their faith to be Christianity, falsely. We may want peace on earth but we may miss the entire purity of essence of Christianity. Claiming to be Christian doesn't make it so, any more than such a claim makes the existence of some sort of 'broad umbrella' of Christianity so. I'm willing to concede that Christianity really may BE just as Brent describes, and anyone who sees negative aspects to that may need to reexamine their claims to that faith. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 >>Yet your morality and religious doctrine outweighs my morality and religious doctrine. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 "it's about freedom to provide and make choices." Barry, I'm glad to hear that you support the local option! Link to post Share on other sites
Brewmeister 132 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Morally straight is what it is. It is black and white. It is not a question of my morality or your morality. Accepting otherwise destroys the scout law and destroys scouting. It is that simple, and you know it, or you would not be protesting so loudly otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Without quoting religious texts, can you explain how homosexuality is immoral? Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Why would we eschew the guidance of religion in making decisions on values? Just for openers though, for most of human history populations usually struggled to be able to maintain a population base. Endorsement of homosexuality arguably would have driven groups that adopted it into decline and oblivion. Much of the "developed" world seems to be headed in that direction now. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Because not every religion believes being gay is immoral, SP. In a pluralistic organization, quoting religious texts to support a point provides no support for a position. Brewmeister contends morality is black and white. Yet my morality holds that homosexuality is perfectly normal, and that it is BSA's discriminatory policy that is in fact immoral. I would like to hear an argument from those who support the ban that relies on logic, not fear, and substantive facts, not religious doctrine. You can quote the Bible all you want, but Scouting is not a Christian organization. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 >> You can quote the Bible all you want, but Scouting is not a Christian organization. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Correct, Barry, and my morals and values say discriminating based on love is repugnant. So again, why do your morals and values trump mine? If you can give me a reason without quoting religious texts - because BSA includes members of many faiths, some of which disagree on this issue - and without resorting to the COs-support-it argument, you will win a prize of me shutting up for a day. I simply want to hear a line of argument that is intellectually honest, because I'm very skeptical that one exists. Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 shortridge, the real question is why do you belong to a group that you feel is so immoral? Since BSA policies are so strongly against both your moral and religious values, how can you stand to be a member? Maybe your moral and religious values aren't that important to you? Maybe that is why you can't understand why our's are so important to us? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 >>>> >>Yet your morality and religious doctrine outweighs my morality and religious doctrine. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm committed to change from the inside. If there are no internal voices speaking out, it will be that much more difficult to get this accomplished. Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Well, if that is your real goal, I suggest you become a Mormon and direct your efforts toward changing their view on homosexuality. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 >>If you can give me a reason without quoting religious texts......... I simply want to hear a line of argument that is intellectually honest, because I'm very skeptical that one exists. Link to post Share on other sites
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