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Is it ok to have known gay scouter (now aged out) to events?

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Someone else had notified council about this and SM called in a few people to confront them about it - after which i was called and asked if it was me who sent in the letter... and after doing some digging i found out that SM twisted the truth about some things in order to be able to accuse those who are not happy with him.


I called DE to get clarifications because things are going to come to a head tonight and I wanted to make sure that I have my facts straight and not say things that are incorrect.. which is why I posted here as well - to get other opinions - and I did get some great suggestions that I will be sharing..

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"and after doing some digging i found out that"


Here is my only other piece of advice to you, although I recognize that it is unsolicited: JUST STOP DIGGING.


You've acknowledged that there is drama aplenty in this troop - refuse to be part of it. If you are unhappy with the troop, as you have described elsewhere, leave. Don't bad-mouth them to others. Don't try to take others with you who might not be ready to go. Don't make it your business to alert others to the internal problems of this troop. You will not change this troop, and you will do yourself and others no favors by continuing to dig, by burning bridges, or fanning flames.

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Well then I appoligize also if you were not the one who initiated the call to the DE. It was just there was no mention of it when you started posting, then you are saying you are getting off the phone after speaking to the DE..


The DE is fine to go to if a problem is serious enough, and you have voiced your concern to everyone within the unit you should, and have received no satifactory feedback. The DE is not the FIRST person to go to when their are issues within a unit, you first try to work it out within the unit (and that includes having the CO & COR knowledgable of the situation, and not reacting to the situation as serious in your opinion..)


If it was someone else who jumped the chain of command and not you, and your just getting the fallback from it, that is fine. Though why the DE is involving a person not registered to the troop (know you are the CM of the Pack, but most times that doesn't mean you have a clue to what the troop is doing.).. Also normally you just discuss it with the troops key-3 and do not drag all adult Leaders and parents into the battle.. Because your troop & DE should be trying to find a way not to have it become a civil war with everyone in the troop, and have the troop self-destruct. (Though from what it sounds like this may be impossible)

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Yah, I agree with Lisabob. Just stop digging and behave like an adult.


Report what yeh have personal knowledge of to the appropriate person, and up the chain if necessary. That would be the chain within the Chartered Organization. SM/CC/COR/IH. If asked by someone in that chain or by the scout council, honestly report what yeh have personal knowledge of, or what your personal feelings are.


Avoid all the other nonsense, no matter how exciting or titillating the gossip and drama are.




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This was the best answer, imo:



> the only people attending a Boy Scout function

> should be Scouts, registered leaders and any

> parents/guardians who are checking it out to

> see if they want to become registered leaders,

> or who are needed because there aren't enough

> registered leaders. From that standpoint,

> regardless of the aged-out Scouter's sexual

> orientation, he shouldn't be attending (and

> if guy in question has no reason to attend,

> his boyfriend especially has absolutely no

> reason to attend).


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There are circumstances where non registered adults are appropriate. Our troop in Southern California always did a major rock climbing weekend in early November. A former scoutmaster for the troop would assemble a crew of young men, some married, to help with the technical aspects; e.g. anchoring lines, managing belays, coaching, etc. None of these guys were registered adult volunteers, but their willingness to help us always made it a hugely successful event. The difference here is that the former scoutmaster was doing the recruiting of the volunteers.


I just mention this as an illustration of a situation where non registered adults can and should be allowed to participate.

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Well, probably good for you and your son.


Do a favor, though, and send a note to the parish pastor, and encourage others to do so. Just a friendly one sayin' why you are leaving and what your experience has been in his church's program.


Copy it to the diocesan youth ministry office.




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Well now it's time for the aftermath.


By all means, send that letter to the Parish Priest - but don't be surprised if the CC and COR have already painted you folks as the troublemakers.


You will now be starting 3 units from scratch - none of them have equipment - don't even think of taking equipment from the existing Pack, Troop and Crew - it's theft and could be prosecuted as such - and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the current leaders pressed charges. You also have no money. If you had Scout Accounts? They no longer exist - don't expect any money to follow you. Hopefully those active ASMs weren't scheduled to be leaders at Summer Camp and now Summer Camp will have to be cancelled for lack of leaders. Probably too late for refunds now.


There is no doubt that there as some dysfunction in the Troop - much of it apparently stemming from disagreements of interpretation of requirements. Why you folks didn't avail yourselves of either a Unit Commissioner to help figure out a compromise, or the Parish Priest (my gosh, mediation is part of the job description!), is beyond me.


But - and this is the big one - nothing you've talked about appears to be a violation of BSA policies. Yes - 3 years without advancing to Tenderfoot is ridiculous - but although you and I might disagree with the former SM about what it would take to pass certain requirements, it doesn't mean the SM was wrong. At that point, the thing to do would be, as an individual, to find a new Troop for your son that more aligns with your thinking, something that was suggested to you back in 2010 when you first posted about that issue.


There is no apparent violation in the Scoutmaster's "adult" son joining in on a campout, regardless of sexual orientation (him being gay is really just a McGuffin in this case - the BSA doesn't allow gays and lesbians to be registered leaders, it says nothing about gay and lesbian parents, siblings and offspring not being allowed to participate). In most cases, I'd discourage the practice of a Scoutmaster's aged-out non-registered son from joining, regardless of whether they were gay or straight, but sometimes, it just might happen. You allege he was there with his boyfriend - if true, as SM, I probably would make it a point to make sure they weren't sharing a tent but I noticed an awful lot of folks in this thread presuming that hanky panky went on between these two at night in the tent when you made no such factual statement - just saying he brought his boyfriend was enough to get some folks frothed up.


And in that wonderful naivety of adults who insist that youth are naive, its pretty darn likely that most of the kids in the Troop knew that SM's son was gay long before he turned 18 and just don't have a problem with it. It's a lot like the SM likely being naive about his father knowing his grandson is gay (as ScoutNut pointed out). Grandpa has more likely than not known for years but is afraid to say anything for fear of his son tossing the kid out on his ear.


When someone "complained" to the Council Office about the SM and the Council Office called the SM, that should have been a pretty big clue - Council doesn't like to get involved in local unit angst - and if they called the SM, they must not believe any G2SS violations occured either.


Looking back, I'm starting to wonder if this just wasn't a long power-play in the offing that just came to a head in which case your side lost. To be honest, if I were the CC or the COR, I would probably invite anyone unhappy with the direction of the units to leave as well so I could try to salvage my units from the ashes.

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