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Republicans and Role Models, oh my

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Liberal vs. Conservatives ... eh, not like there's a big difference from the political standpoint.


If a candidate (any candidate) got up and vetted his past right off the bat...he'd get my vote... I'd like to hear a candidate step up and say...


I've cheated on my wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend.


I dodged the draft.


I inhaled.


I've cheated on my taxes.


I have friends who are lobbyists.


I may have forgotten other things I did.


No one has the guts to stand up and say that...

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As a former guy who worked with Senators and Congressman it is really Elites vs Elites. And any body who isn't one will become one. The power alone is intoxicating and corrupting.


As for fessing up before hand I am not sure that person would survive the process. We want people better than us not like us.


The cheating thing really, really bothers me. I was a Clinton man but there were those of us who thought he should have stepped down for "personal" reasons. I might vote for a guy who did that for Congress but President? Probably not.


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I'm not sure why I keep hearing about the number of Republican candidates and the number of debates they've held. The primaries begin next month......of course they've been debating leading up to it. You don't jump in the week before priamry season. It seems that people forget just a few short years back to the 2008 election. Remember the "small" Democrat field? Obama, Clinton, Biden, Dodd, Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich, Richardson, Bayh and Vilsack. Ten candidates in all.....and they debated to boot! When you laugh at the Republican field, look at these names and ask yourself if they make you the least bit more comfortable?

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Heh, heh! I think I'd prefer the original to the pale imitation!



I actually think Obama has been an unusually decent guy as President. I expected to be an Obama hater, but instead I admire the guy as a decent person. I just don't care for his politics and party. I expected Obama to rule from the left. Instead he's been a center-left President --- not too bad especially when he is otherwise a decent guy.


Newt has some of the devil in him! He would certainly liven up a Presidential debate with Obama --- I'd like to see that!


Clinton had some of the political devil in him too.


That's really to be expected in a President.

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Folks are missing Lisa's point. The Republicans deliberately campaign on a "traditional values" platform. The Democrats don't. Because of that campaign style, it's much easier to label Republican politicians as hypocrites when they fall short of the values they espouse in their campaigning - and its why when GOP partisans then try to point out that the Democrats do the same things, it doesn't typically resonate with the voters because there isn't the spectre of hypocrisy that looms over the charges.


Yes, Bill Clinton was morally suspect in his personal life - but he never campaigned as a moral values candidate so when his moral failings are pointed out, the majority of people shrug and only the very narrow values base of the GOP party seems to care.


But when someone like Larry Craig is caught in a morally compromising situation, the narrow values base of the GOP party turns on them, and the people who would typically shrug it off turn on him not because of the moral failings but because of the hypocrisy involved. Voters may dislike hypocrites more than they dislike liars.


As to the field - and in my opinion:


Huntsman - seems to be a values choice - not going to get past the base (he worked for Obama - how dare he).


Romney - I still remember reading about his lashing his dog carrier to the top of the car and driving on highways to New Hampshire with his dog in the carrier on the top of the car. He doesn't meet my idea of someone with values I can support.


Santorum - sorry, Lisa - given his visceral hatred of gays and lesbians, I don't think he passes muster on values - maybe to a small group of evangelicals who share his hatred, but beyond that? Nope.


Cain - I think I can only compare him to Bill Clinton in this regard - complete with the nonsensical denials.


Paul - seems to be a values choice - but not going to get past the GOP base.


Bachman - railing about people taking government handouts while accepting hundreds of thousands in government funds seems pretty hypocritical to me.


Perry - an Eagle Scout - yet actively worked to cover up the possibility that the State of Texas executed a man convicted of a crime that didn't actually take place - I don't consider that moral at all.


Newt - Can I just fall on the carpet and start rolling around laughing or do I really need to say anything? The man served his ex-wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital undergoing treatment for cancer - great values there.


Obama - admitted to making poor choices as a teenager but took the right path - seems to be a values choice.



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Some years ago, when my leanings were more left than they are today, I recall musing about the pillars of Family Values -- Regan, Gingrich and Limbaugh. I believe I counted eight wives among them (maybe more now, I quit counting.)


But this is all just the horse race baloney the media promotes. No one wants to hear about foreign policy or economics but they're dang excited about Big Bill's cigars, Cain's resume builder programs or Clarence Thomas' Coke can. Now that interesting stuff!


The party out of the White House always goes through this. Was it in '92 the media dubbed the Democratic field "The Seven Dwarfs"? No one captures the primary prior to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. They only loose it. If I were managing a campaign, I'd lock my candidate in a closet somewhere until two weeks before the SC primary then jump in with a media massive push -- no debates, no foot-in-mouth, no 12 months for the media to dig up dirt on my guy.




Tampa -- "As a former guy...." Have you had the surgery or just living the lifestyle?


Is it to late to edit that post? LOL!!

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"Everyone of the republican candidates are running on traditional conservative values, just not the values you're talking about."


You bring up a good point, Barry. The values I'm talking about might not seem to be the traditional conservative values. But the problem is that "traditional values" isn't very well defined so we all come to the question with our own idea of what those traditional conservative values are or what we believe them to be.


So what are the traditional conservative values - and are they different from what were thought to be traditional conservative values 50 years ago? 100?



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Does it really matter Calico, you think Obama is a values choice and I think he is the worst wrecking ball to my kids future that this county has ever produced. Our core values are so different that an intellectual discussion would be impossible.



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The 'Traditional Values' litmus test is usually foisted upon Conservatives by media pundits.


TwoCub's earlier point about the media being a critical enabler of Democrats is very accurate.


Many more Conservatives (not Republicans...) are sensitive to fiscal and national security issues than to social issues. Heck, 90% of the people I know who voted for McCain are pro-choice, but you'd never believe that if you listen the MSM. (If you don't like abortion, choose to not have one!)


But abortion has become the key wedge issue used to motivate single-issue women voters to blindly support the Dems. To keep that wedge sharp, the media holds Repubs to a higher 'Moral Standard'.


I'll even submit that anyone who has led a perfect life and actually passes the 'Traditional Values' test is too boring to be president!



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I thought we were talking about values and morals, not policies. We may certainly disagree on policies. But what about the so-called values - isn't that what this discussion is about? I'd like to know where in a scale of values Obama fits in comparison to the other candidates. Again, not asking about policy - but about what are thought to be family or moral values.



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Yah, JoeBob, I agree with yeh that a lot of Republicans are fiscal or security issues voters rather than values voters. In fact, LisaBob, I think that's what you're seeing in da Republican race.


Governor Romney has mostly sewn up da support of the business Republicans. He's a real businessman, he's had demonstrated success in that field, and he doesn't behave like an irrational nitwit. A few might have flirted with Cain, but he never really caught on. Romney, because of his business connections, also has by far da best organization. I was solicited for funds by fellow conservative business colleagues way early in da cycle.


Romney's problem is that as a Mormon he doesn't appeal at all to the Christian right, as a governor from Taxachusetts he doesn't appeal to the anti-tax crowd, and he has no national security chops to speak of. So he gets a consistent one quarter of da votes. His personal morality, like many Mormons, is really quite exemplary. But it's not really about morality, it's about faith for da Christian Right voters. Yeh wouldn't see 'em flocking to a moral Jew or Catholic either.


Ron Paul has da support of the libertarian and anti-government group, but no one else. He's alienated da national security folks entirely, he doesn't wear his religion on his sleeve enough for da Christian Right (and supports loose drug laws and such), the business folks want nothing to do with him.


And on we go. Right now, neither the Christian Right nor da Hawks have a clear candidate, and they're casting about. Newt has possible appeal for the national security folks.


All pretty normal, eh? As long as yeh understand that it's about tribe, not about issues. ;)



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