Health Insurance

[GernBlansten 10]

If it sounds as if I am callous, I am not. but I think the perception is that the legal system is going to work 100% of the time, and that is not the case. And some people want to blame someone.

Sometimes, clearly frivolous lawsuits prevail and test our faith in the system. But the solution is not for the government to deny our freedom to challenge those who we perceive have harmed us. Especially based on the actions of the few.

[Beavah 205]

Nah, your freedom ends at the point where you are imposing a social cost on others. Doesn't matter what da mechanism is by which you demand others' resources, by stickup or by manipulation. It's not a freedom issue, nor is it a legal issue as Blanc implies. It's a public policy issue.

 

No different than Good Samaritan laws or statutory immunity for NFP volunteers or immunity for reporters of suspected child abuse. Or are yeh in favor of repealing those "limits on freedom" too, Gern?

 

This is, of course, an example of why this nation finds it impossible to build a rational, economically efficient health policy, eh? Everyone turns their particular issue into a Sacred Cow involving "freedom". Can't make me buy insurance, can't make me stop suing, can't make me not get da most aggressive treatment at your expense. You're taking away my Freedom!

 

Puhlease.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[GernBlansten 10]

It would all be solved with total socialized medicine wouldn't it Beavah? Of course with unlimited immunity granted to the government.

[Beavah 205]

There's no such thing as solving all da problems, Gern. But nobody's goin' to get anywhere with da present irrational nature of da dialog.

 

Yeh can make a case for socializing medicine, or at least basic care, but if yeh do that then yeh have to allow for sovereign immunity, eh? Yeh can make a case for free market medicine, but not with a monopolized supply, and not without being willing to watch da uninsured scout in your troop be crippled for life because his family can't afford his treatment after da Camporee incident.

 

What we can't have as a nation is everything. We can't have exceptional high-end care and low costs and limited supply and universal coverage and large awards for mistakes and excellent drug research and low drug costs. Most nations have made a compromise where they drastically reduce access to high-end care (either directly or through long delays in scheduling) and have very limited legal remedies for medical issues (either by law or by culture), in exchange for universal general care. They rely on da US funding drug research rather than investing in it themselves.

 

Some of those options we don't have, eh? Da rest is just a question of our public policy views and priorities.

 

Beavah

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I want everyone to stop and think about society's stereotype of a career goverment worker, whether its the Post Office (yes, its quasi government) the Motor Vehicle Dept, Social Security, and the VA or AMTRAK

 

Now, think of them controlling and providing health care

[Eagle92 110]

What I find rather interesting is that the US is looking to Canada, the UK, France, and others for examples.

 

But the person who pushed for Canada's medical system has stated it is a mess and needs reform. The UK is cutting back on funding NHS. And France is actually looking at the US model of healthcare.

[The Blancmange 67]

OldGreyEagle wrote:

 

Now, think of them controlling and providing health care

Right, because it works so well now with insurance company employees controlling and directing health care.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Sorry no, Insurance Company Employees do not control nor do they direct healthcare

 

If Insurance Company Employees controled and directed healthcare, how do the uninsured get healthcare?

 

Plastic Surgery is rarely if ever covered by Insurance, yet plenty of tummy tucks, nose jobs and face lifts get done, how is that possible if Insurance Company Employees controled and directed health care

[GernBlansten 10]

The VA is highly regarded as delivering high quality care at a reasonable cost.

 

Cosmetic surgery is not healthcare. Neither are tattoos.

[The Blancmange 67]

 

Sorry no, Insurance Company Employees do not control nor do they direct healthcare

Try telling that to my friend who just sat in limbo for 2 weeks while her doctors worked to convince her insurance company to reverse their denial for the bone marrow transplant that she needs for leukemia.

[CalicoPenn 729]

I had actually written comments to Beavah's post, it wasn't just a cut and paste - I either used some character the forum doesn't like, or it was so shocked that I was pretty much in agreement with what Beavah had posted that it just couldn't handle it.

 

Sorry about that - I'll try again:

 

1: Agree with increasing the pool - and I'm fine with mandatory insurance. If the Federal Government can mandate that people register for selective service, it should be able to mandate that people buy health insurance - I just wish there was a public option to buy into Medicare. And if the FedGov can't mandate, then get around it by tying Medicare payments to the states with a requirement that States come up with a plan to make sure everyone in the state is insured. Betcha most states would mandate health insurance, just like they mandate auto insurance - most people don't have a problem with states making them buy auto insurance - or at least, they're used to it now.

 

2: Not sure it's billing overhead that's out of control (how much does it really cost for someone to key in charges and mail out bills?). I think it's the payment process and overhead in private insurance administration and management that's the issue. Single payer would help alleviate this, but if people don't want that, then let's treat health insurance companies like regulated utilities - make them prove up their requests for rate hikes in front of a health insurance utility board.

 

3: Agreed - the AMA is a lobbying and trade group that most physicians in the country aren't a member of, yet it holds inordinate power in the halls of Congress and in State Legislatures. States are perfectly capable of regulating the medical profession for safety and doesn't need the AMA to tell them how to do it.

 

4: I know people think "death panel" when things like this come up - but there have been death panels for years - most hospitals have transplant boards that determine whether someone is a candidate for an organ transplant or not - if they say no, it's a death sentence. Most insurance companies have in the past, and continue now, to deny benefits and procedures - and if people can't afford it on their own, it's a death sentence. Do we really need to replace the hips of terminally ill 96-year olds whose life expectancy is under 1 year anyway, and who is at high risk for not surviving the surgery in the first place? But why stop there, we should be limiting expensive treatments and diagnoses for people of all ages. How many of us had MRI's for sprained and twisted ankles when we were kids? Nowadays, its automatic because so many people demanded them and threatened to sue if they didn't get one that Doctors just won't take the risk not to anymore, and insurance companies just automatically pay for them - which leads to #5.

 

5: Not sure I agree on limiting damage awards for gross negligence (which is, after all, voluntary negligence and not accidental negligence). Instead, lets empower the courts to convene hearings to determine if a suit has merit before they're even allowed to be filed.

 

6: Agreed - pay GP's more than specialists - put the emphasis on wellness and preventive care, and on treating the small stuff before it becomes big stuff.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

[vol_scouter 365]

Gern,

 

My proposal was to have a board of experts determine if there is a case (as in Indiana). The plaintiff would only be at risk for paying in the event of a loss if the board did not find in favor of the plaintiff. When a physician is sued, there are many costs incurred by the physician since we only make money when working. The suit takes many days away from work even if the case is frivolous. So it is fair to expect the plaintiff to be at risk if experts do not believe that there is sufficient evidence to proceed.

 

Your concern with liberty and freedom seem disingenuous since your desire for socialized medicine takes away freedom and liberty. Socialized medicine removes choice of treatment and diagnostic procedures. Beavah's comments are correct about the trade-offs between a market based system and socialized medicine which removes freedom and liberty.

[GernBlansten 10]

Who would make up the review board of experts, Vol? Would they be the same professionals who the plaintiff would be attempting redress from? Who chooses that board? Will liberals or human advocates be allowed to serve? Is this just another term for death panels? Isn't that the fox watching the hen house?

 

And yes, I use the freedom club just like everyone on the right uses it. Swings both ways.

[CalicoPenn 729]

"I want everyone to stop and think about society's stereotype of a career goverment worker, whether its the Post Office (yes, its quasi government) the Motor Vehicle Dept, Social Security, and the VA or AMTRAK"

 

Post office - they collect, sort, and deliver millions of pieces of mail daily (major sorting centers are open 24/7, and delivery is available on Sundays and holidays, even Christmas in major markets) to all corners of the United States including Hawaii and Barrow, Alaska at a cost of 44 cents for a first class letter with a next day delivery rate averaging above 98% in next day zones with a lower administrative overhead cost than private insurance companies.

 

Motor Vehicle Department (state level) - processes thousands of title applications, new and renewing license plates, new and renewing drivers licenses, including written, vision and on-the-road tests for a variety of vehicles every working day. Though you may feel you shouldn't have to wait around for an hour once every 4 years (in Illinois) to get a license renewed, if you just watch the process, you understand how efficient it is - if the workers won't kowtow to your whims, its because they are trying to keep the machine moving forward - and yes, I use that analogy because we are very much moving through a form of production line when we go to the motor vehicles department.

 

Social Security - processes millions of checks, applications for benefits, applications for cards, applications for death benefits, and status changes monthly - and have never been late with a payment. During disasters, like Hurricane Katrina, work like the dickens to make sure affected citizens get their benefits on time, even if they had to evacuate to somewhere else for a while - and are very successful at it.

 

VA - some of the best doctors, nurses and benefits available in the US - ask Veterans that use the VA system and they'll tell you how well they are treated, and how good the system works for them. Like those complaining about Medicare, those that complain about the VA are the ones that probably aren't using it.

 

Amtrak - An average on time record in the mid to high 70's depending on train and market on aging equipment and infrastructure which is equivalent to the on time records of the major airlines which are also in the mid to high 70's. Imagine what they could do if we were willing to pony up for the long-needed infrastructure improvements. And it's still the best way to get to Philmont for most Scouts.

 

I look at these and I can't help but think - yep, our government could handle it well.

[vol_scouter 365]

Gern,

 

The expert panel could be made up of doctors, lawyers, and members of the community. It would certainly be more fair than the current system. A friend who is a plaintiff's attorney in medical malpractice who practiced in Indiana liked the expert system and felt that the panels were fair.

 

Tort reform does not dictate actions only limits awards. Socialized medicine controls people.