The other thread (for those wanting to discuss homosexuality)

[VigilEagle04 10]

Merlyn,

 

Most likely it wasn't just Eratosthenes either. Some of the monuments of antiquity and the way they relate to the moon, the sun, and the stars, they almost certainly had to have a knowledge about the earth that surpasses what we often give them credit for.

 

By the way, I must complement the name, and not only an avid reader and fan of the Arthurian legends, but also as a Celtic spiritualist. You may not connect it to the man of legend, but it stuck out to me, lol.

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

VigilEagle says to Merlyn LeRoy:

 

By the way, I must complement the name, and not only an avid reader and fan of the Arthurian legends, but also as a Celtic spiritualist. You may not connect it to the man of legend, but it stuck out to me, lol.

 

Perhaps less Arthurian legend and more Moose and Squirrel, Vigil.

[VigilEagle04 10]

NJ,

 

Interesting, had never seen it in that setting. Nor did I know it was the name of a director/producer. Apparently pop culture less than 100 years old escapes me, lol.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

[ScoutBox 11]

I myself don't have a problem with a Homosexual being a member, leader or whatever in the BSA. I do have a problem with Sex being a part of the BSA.. Weather it's straight or homosexual sex, there shouldn't be any discussions or talk about sex in the BSA. That's my job as a parent. Leave sex out of the BSA.

[acco40 95]

Okay Mr. Seinfeld. Exactly what do you mean by "Sex being a part of the BSA"? The BSA restricts membership based on sex - both gender and certains acts if public.

 

You are correct, that the teaching of sex education is not in our (Scouter's) job description however, as a MBC for Personal Fitness - the fact that certain diseases are contracted via sexual activities are part of "my" curriculum (and the MB book). Also, I think it is important that we don't treat the subject as some mysterious "not to be talked about, no words should ever be spoken" subject because that may warp the minds of the boys too. There is a balance. It was rare that a Scout brought up the topic to me when I was a Scoutmaster but it did surface a few times. The way I handled it was to not make a big deal of it, give basic matter of fact responses and lead them back to their families for further discussion.

[ScoutBox 11]

Who's this Mr. Seinfeld?

 

You need to read what's written, and not what you want to hear. Scouting isn't a place for sexual discussion. As a SM I also lead that back to a parent subject. But what I'm referring to is the discussion on Sexual orientation. I as a Straight male don't talk about my sexual preference to any of the boys. Same should go with any body. Leave sex out of Scouting..

[CalicoPenn 729]

"I as a Straight male don't talk about my sexual preference to any of the boys."

 

Are you sure? Ever mention your wife while you are around the boys? Ever have your wife drop you off or pick you up from a meeting in front of the boys? Ever have your wife attend a Troop function, like a Court of Honor, or a prent's night?

 

You might not be setting the boys down and having the conversation, but chances are pretty good that you're modeling your sexual preference.

 

This isn't to suggest that all Scoutmasters must be single and celibate - that's not my point at all. My point is that the "I don't talk to the boys about my sexual preferences" is a tired old argument that sounds good on paper but is meaningless in reality. It's akin to the argument of someone complaining about people flaunting their sexuality while ignoring the fact that they walk down the street holding their spouses hand, or have pictures of their spouse on their desk at work.

[ScoutBox 11]

In fact I don't talk about my wife at troop functions. I talk about scouting.

 

Many of you are just out to make the argument fit your needs to argue for the sake of arguing..

 

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Scoutbox says:

 

I as a Straight male don't talk about my sexual preference to any of the boys. Same should go with any body. Leave sex out of Scouting.

 

That's fine. I agree with that. I doubt anyone in this forum disagrees with that. If the BSA policy on sexual orientation was, in its entirety, "Don't discuss your sexual orientation with the boys," there would be widespread applause, my local United Way would restore funding to our council and people would stop asking me things like, "How can you be involved with that hate group?"

 

But that's not what the policy is. So far as anyone knows, James Dale never discussed his sexuality with the boys in his troop. In fact, the Supreme Court case does not specifically say that he discussed his "sexuality", by which I mean what he does in private, with anyone. He was identified in a newspaper as being the president of a college gay rights organization. For that he was terminated as a leader. The "policy" itself states that an "avowed homosexual" may not be a leader. It's irrelevant to the BSA whether "the boys" even know about it. So that would be a great solution, basing the policy on what's discussed with the boys, and not on what someone somewhere knows.

[ScoutBox 11]

Agreed. I understand that the BSA is a private club, and can make it's laws fit it's design. I am a part of the BSA and hope to stay a part of it. This law isn't changing my mind about the BSA. But the BSA does need to look with in it's self a bit better to see what's really hurting the BSA. I don't think it's gays. But the sad image that a few out there are giving it. And there can be hundreds of great stories about how good the organization is and does, but let one situation like this happen, and it feeds those few who are against the BSA.

 

I was just at a Commissioner's Course, and they spoke just a little about this situation with the Trial case lost and is up for appeal by the BSA, and how this is tearing a large hole in the BSA's image, and banking account.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

But the BSA does need to look with in it's self a bit better to see what's really hurting the BSA. I don't think it's gays. But the sad image that a few out there are giving it. And there can be hundreds of great stories about how good the organization is and does, but let one situation like this happen, and it feeds those few who are against the BSA.

 

Scoutbox, the issue is not "a few out there" or "those few who are against the BSA." The issue is the BSA's own policy. Many of those who think it should be changed (including me and a number of others in this forum) are not "out there" or "against the BSA" -- we are Scouters who think the policy is hurting the BSA and should be changed. And when I say "hurting the BSA", I don't necessarily mean in terms of numbers or dollars -- the impact of the policy on those is debatable and, to me, not really relevant. I mean hurting the BSA because it's a policy that is contrary to the fundamental values of the BSA, despite what the current temporary leadership in Texas might think. I'm FOR the BSA, so "for" it that, like many Scouters, I have stayed on after my son has moved on to college and other things, and have become even more involved. Since I'm "for" it, I want to see it improve.

[Lisabob 13]

"I was just at a Commissioner's Course, and they spoke just a little about this situation with the Trial case lost and is up for appeal by the BSA, and how this is tearing a large hole in the BSA's image, and banking account."

 

Uh, what's this a reference to? Scoutbox I know you are located in Switzerland so you may be getting your info through a different lens. But the BSA --- won --- the Dale case.

 

[ScoutBox 11]

The case in Oregon was won. I was told that it was still on going. Not sure which case your talking about.

[Gary_Miller 10]

The case in organ had to do with abuse and not homosexuality.

[Gary_Miller 10]

NJCubScouter,"Scoutbox, the issue is not "a few out there" or "those few who are against the BSA." The issue is the BSA's own policy. Many of those who think it should be changed (including me and a number of others in this forum) are not "out there" or "against the BSA" -- we are Scouters who think the policy is hurting the BSA and should be changed."

 

No one has yet been able to logically explain how the policy on Gay Scout Leaders is hurting the BSA, as well as justified why it should be changed. How about you give it a shot?

 

 

NJCubScouter, "I mean hurting the BSA because it's a policy that is contrary to the fundamental values of the BSA, despite what the current temporary leadership in Texas might think."

 

What fundamental values of the BSA is the policy contrary to?

 

NJCubScouter, "I'm FOR the BSA, so "for" it that, like many Scouters, I have stayed on after my son has moved on to college and other things, and have become even more involved. Since I'm "for" it, I want to see it improve."

 

Improve how?