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Are Taoist boys allowed to join BSA?

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From the adult application( http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf ) :


Leadership Requirements

The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of

America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct

age, subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle, and abide by the Scout Oath or

Promise, and the Scout Law.






Qualification. Adult citizens, or adult noncitizens who reside within the country, may register with the Boy Scouts of America in any

capacity if they agree to abide by the Scout Oath or Promise and the Scout Law, to respect and obey the laws of the United States of

America, and to subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle. All leaders must be 21 years of age or older, except

assistant Scoutmasters, assistant den leaders, assistant Cubmasters, assistant Webelos den leaders, and assistant Varsity Scout

coaches, who must be 18 or older.




So it still comes down to being an adult, wether 18 or 21 years old....not youth.

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Interesting twist.

We now have scouters claiming that atheist boys can join BSA but not adults?

Is that right? I thought athiests could not be members. Period. Agnostics too.


BTW, R. Lee Ermys first movie roll was in Boys of Company C. A great Vietnam movie but not up to FMJ standards. Definitely not for kids. FMJ launched him to fame which led to the lead role in Siege of Firebase Gloria. Another not for kids movie, but OK low budget Vietnam flick. He never did Hamburger Hill.


Another interesting tidbit on RL Ermy, he never was a Gunnery Sargent in the Marines. That title was bestowed on him ceremoniously because of his movie roles. Yet in his History Channel show, he claimed he was a US Marine Corps Gunnery Sargent. That ruffled some feathers of true gunnery sergeants. Kinda like the honorary title of Colonel Sanders.


Never the less, he was effective in my early decisions not to join the Marine Corps. I never wanted to deal with that type of man as my superior. But I do love his characters.

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vol_scouter writes:

Your anger is palpable. I overstated my point and apologized.


You blatantly slandered me, with absolutely no grounds for your contemptible lie. You didn't "overstate your point," you simply MADE UP CRAP ABOUT ME and vomited it into this forum.


I have never seen you apologize or even be willing to admit that you are wrong as in the current case.


Well, I don't go around MAKING UP UTTER LIES about people I've never met and post them on public forums.


YOU, however, do so. You do it probably because you don't like me. Do you make up lies about other people you don't like? Hey, why not? Sure, slander people just because they tic you off for some reason.


Real good example of a scout you are.

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Yah, hmmm... I guess that about does it.


I apologize, eh? I figured I'd take the time to do one detailed explication as requested. Just as a test.


Well, I reckon we all saw da answer to the test, so as a favor let's just stop respondin to this one. Yeh can all bookmark it and just refer to it in da future when the misinformation comes up again. :)


In da spirit of Gern's movie of choice this thread, I leave yeh with this:


These are great days we're living, bros. We are jolly green giants, walking the Earth with guns. These people we wasted here today are the finest human beings we will ever know. After we rotate back to the world, we're gonna miss not having anyone around that's worth shooting.




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Yikes, after reading these last responses I think I'll calm down for a while and just listen to some Mel Gibson phone recordings. Such emotion and passion and such anger! Dang that rap music!


But I HAVE learned something in these last few responses: I have evidently missed a LOT of war movies somewhere along the way.


That said, it is now time for me to teach you guys a lesson:

If you had been picking blueberries with me (yes, those wimpy dark blue things that don't cause injury) none of this would have happened..or at least there might have been time for things to cool off a bit. I fear that the black berries are done. I'm going to have to really work, or else seek higher elevation, to get another pie full. But the blueberries, they're just hitting their stride, I got a gallon from just one bush last night...and it's just a taste (literally) of what's ahead.


Yes, I agree, time to stick a fork in this one. Actually, no...in that pie I have waiting for breakfast. If these are the last words, I apologize for taking that from Beavah. Now...to gain some weight!

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There is a reason Western thought has issues with the Tao and, by definition, Taoists. Some things just cannot and should not be named. Yet humans persist in that effort. So be it. You can't explain Taoism.


As an aside - I believe many of the posts here do not reflect the OP's request for honest input.


Chapter 32


The Tao, eternally nameless

Its simplicity, although imperceptible

Cannot be treated by the world as subservient


If the sovereign can hold on to it

All will follow by themselves

Heaven and Earth, together in harmony

Will rain sweet dew

People will not need to force it; it will adjust by itself


In the beginning, there were names

Names came to exist everywhere

One should know when to stop

Knowing when to stop, thus avoiding danger


The existence of the Tao in the world

Is like streams in the valley into rivers and the ocean


Tao Te Ching: Annotated & Explained, translated by Derek Lin


It also talks about the waste that is pointless conflict. Kind of like "don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff."




(This message has been edited by Vicki)

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Any boy can join Scouting. All boys should. When speaking of faith and religion, whether they remain depends on their "trustworthyness" and desire to not be a hypocrite. "...duty to God" and "reverence" and the religious stuff inherent in the Scout Handbook and elsewhere in the Scoutworld (see DRP, which should be DFP) will make it clear to the Scout and his parents that certain things are to be considered when the Scout makes his Promise.

We had a very fine mother sign her Cub up for CSDC and then because of the quality of the staff, volunteer herself to help. We gave her an Adult Scouter application (gotta be "registered"), and then she read the fine print. "Did my son fill one of these out when he joined?" Well, one of his parents did, Uh-huh. "I'm sorry, we are not religious. Nothing personal, you folks run a fine camp, but I must withdraw my boy from Scouting." We thanked her for her frankness and shook hands goodbye.


Our Highbush BBs were picked clean two weeks ago. Mebbe two gallons off three bushes, and the catbirds got the rest. Still picking raspberries. Just built an arbor and planted two grape vines. Oh the jam.

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I do not appreciate your attitudes; I do not know whether I like you or not for I do not know you. I did overstate what I should have said and apologized.


According to Wikipedia, Bigotry: "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."


You are obstinate, intolerant, and prejudiced toward the BSA and from this thread alone you demonstrate animosity, intolerance, and irrationality toward those on this list who do not share your beliefs about the BSA. So your online presence is difficult to like and you do your cause more harm than good.

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Whooa! Hold your horses!

I thought the majority of BSA's problems using public resources was due to the fact that they excluded services to the un-faithed. Is that still not true? Don't those services relate to the youth, not the adult volunteers?

Can a boy who says he is an atheist be a Boy Scout?

What, you gonna let him join, but then put the thumb screws on him to say "repent, or be expelled!"?

I can't believe what I'm reading here.

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Gern, That's not what I got out of Vol's post.


What I read was this: A parent did not realize the religious connection to boy scoutimng and when she did, SHE ( not her son or any BSA leadership) decided that scouting what not something she or her son could be a part of.


At that point, Vol said" Well, I understand that , thanks anyways for at least considering us.


Vol didn't argue about wether the mom's choice was right or wrong or that she should cave in to others wishes. Just said "we respect your thoughts on this".


So , there are no horses to be held, and no statements were said saying repent or be expelled.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

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MY understanding of it is this:


Boys are not atheist. They are not religious. They are jusy boys. They do not know what they are and legally, they are minors.


Kinda like my son: Today, LEGO is the best thing EVER! Tommorrow, his Playstation3 is the best thing EVER!


Next week, whatever comes out at the store is......THE BEST THING EVER!


Sop a boy may profess complete atheism today, and might decide to join a monastary tommorow.


Simply put, they don't have aclue what they want, what they plan to do or what their beliefs are.


So, the youth are neither atheist or believers......they are just youth.


Youth are welcome.



And just from personal observation: Ever see a kid who swears that the bible says "X". And if you ask him how he knows, the only answer is that his parents told him so. His beliefs are more likely to be his parents and not his own.


Same for the whole Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge arguement: Whatever dad, his dad,and his dad before him drove is the best truck ever - no doubt about it!


Under 18 and they are just youth.


After they turn 18, they can be whatever they say they are.

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However, we do occasionally have a few parents who want to push an agenda through their children, eh? So they'll make a big stink about how their boy is atheist and refuses to accept the Cub Scout Promise or the Scout Oath but still wants to join.


And then the answer on the BSA side is "No, sorry, that's not consistent with our mission."


So yah, we do refuse membership to atheist youth in that sort of context, or the context of a 17 year old young adult denies any religious belief at an Eagle BOR or such. But not in da context that Scoutfish reports, where kids are learning/stretching/rebelling and whatnot. That's where real kids are at, eh? And it's certainly not da context of this thread, where a boy is a Taoist without the same western notion of personal God, but with a genuinely religious belief.


One of the lads who once told me he was an atheist at a First Class or Star BOR is now a very well respected Christian minister. ;)



(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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I think there are many on this forum that would disagree with you.


But, if you are correct and atheist youth can join, why doesn't that come out in any of the court hearings? It sure doesn't seem like official BSA policy. More of a local option, albeit unofficial.


Just think how many of BSA's legal problems would disappear if they made the local option an official BSA policy.

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