The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America New Rule for Pastors

[RedFlyer 10]

If we ban those whom we consider to not fit our definition of "morally straight," shouldn't we also ban those who aren't "physically strong?" Or those that aren't "mentally awake?"

 

While I personally think homosexuality is immoral, I also think that so are liars, gossipers, and men who cheat on their wives. Do we kick all of the leader's who fit those descriptions out of Scouting?

 

Really, who is more immoral, the committed, monogamous homosexual or the single, promiscuous heterosexual? (Promiscuous here meaning someone who engages in sex with many partners.)

 

I think the Local Option is necessary. My boys and I would never join a troop led by a homosexual because we would feel uncomfortable with that troop's moral message. But, on the other hand, we have left troops that are full of backbiting, gossiping committee members because we were uncomfortable with their moral message. The BSA is being inconsistent.

 

[packsaddle 753]

Now that we have brought this dead horse back to life to beat it some more...Hi Vicki!!

I'm doing my best to think of some more sexist claptrap...I'll get back to you as soon as I do.

 

I repeat the quote, "The purpose of religion isn't to bring people together."

 

Bacchus stated, " The winds of change are working to change our very morals....we do not need to change the Scout Oath, or to make exceptions to individuals, or large groups, who do not want to follow our standards."

I puzzled over this at first but now, in light of the discussions on the thread about the LDS church influence over BSA, it makes perfect sense. All that is needed is to substitute "LDS" for "our".

 

So....Anyone know an update to the actual topic of the thread?

[BDPT00 41]

Two things:

Bacchus -- How in the world did a thread about the ELCA become a more appropriate place to discuss LDS Scouting? This makes no sense to me.

Packsaddle -- Since the decision last August, the number of congregations leaving the ELCA is between 1 & 2 percent. Numbers aren't available to see if overall membership has risen or fallen due to the decision. It's an ongoing process, and still heated. It's a small blip on the screen, and the best thing for the BSA and the NLAS to do is still nothing.

Now let's get back to the other thread on LDS Scouting. There is no news here.

BDPT00

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

Well, there's this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126508136

[bacchus 10]

OGE "But what do you tell the people who think that if the BSA allowed Gay and Atheist memebers would instead be "Raising thier moral standard""

 

I try to keep an open mind and I found this statement to be very enlightening. I will let that simmer around in my mind a little.

 

Part of the issue is that some people view the issue as tolerance, while others view it as a lack of morals.

 

Somebody accused me of being a troll. Let me assure you that is not my intent. I was merely trying to shift the morality issue back over to this thread from another thread that was intended to be about the weaknesses of local units, and what I can do to keep mine positive. People talk about this being a virtual roundtable. Yet they next say that some units are "ghosts" because they never see those individuals, but when those individuals show up they are run out of the virtual roundtable. I can see that being very similar to your local district. If a leader shows up with a proposal and you just gang up on him, he probably won't be back. This can give the appearance of credibility to your argument that he is a "ghost" but can you say that is his fault?

[evmori 11]

It's time for pie.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

In trying to keep from mixing apples and oranges, I have never called LDS units "Ghosts" that is not a term I have used, that I recall.

 

I had thought some of these reasons for this thread being revived and the other LDS related thread was because you wanted to know why LDS scouting is thought of the way its thought of. And you have had many answers.

 

If you feel ganged up on, I cannot speak for the others but that was not my intent. You wanted reasons for why some feel as they do, and you got them.

[John-in-KC 311]

I will email some folks on the board of NLAS and ask for an update.

[packsaddle 753]

In case there is some equivocation, there's no such thing as ghosts.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[BDPT00 41]

Packsaddle,

I didn't see Boy Scouts mentioned in the attached, irrelevant article. Was there a point I missed? Was a Scouting unit lost or gained because of this?

BDPT00

[packsaddle 753]

No, it is merely something that happened in the Bible Belt and evidently there has been a huge yawn in response, almost as if it is irrelevant or something.

The link is to an article about the reversal of status for two gay ELCA pastors, related to the ELCA's New Rule for Pastors. I thought the relevance to the thread title was obvious.

I was in error, sorry.

 

Edited Part: In that article I did learn something that I had not understood before...the relationship between the ELCA and the United Church of Christ. I have trouble relating the various flavors of Protestantism. This helped a tiny bit.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[dcopel01 10]

There are many differences in our world of religion. We talk about duty to God and being reverent. I don't think we are here to define want this might mean to a Jew, a Baptist, a Muslim,a Methodist a Lutheran or any other religious organization. Do I agree with the policy of the ELCA? Absolutely not and I would leave the denomination in a heartbeat if I were a member! BUT...I am not here to judge them.

 

The choice for my family would be simple in that we would just not be active in an ELCA charted Troop if it was promoting that kind of lifestyle. Heck, I know of a Baptist chartered Troop that requires all uniformed leaders to be saved in order to register. They can do that if they want and we would have a choice not to join that one if we knew in advance it was part of their policy.

 

Let's respect the religous differences of others and as my Bible teacher likes to say "remember we are in sales and not in management"

 

It is way past the time that the BSA should drop the policy.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

There's only one small problem with what you propose, Mr or Ms dcope...

 

God has not dropped the policy.

 

The last time I checked, all the Epistles of the Apostle Paul are still canon.

[Bando 21]

John, what about the members of the BCA for which the Epistles have no bearing? Jews immediately come to mind. That's certainly not "canon" for them. Which God are you talking about?

 

I was recently at a council dinner, a crowd of adult scouters and Scouting supporters from all over the area. And the person giving the invocation decided to end it with a very evangelical Christian prayer, finishing with "In Jesus' name we pray, Amen."

 

I wonder what that says to the Jewish scouter. or the Buddhist. or the Muslim. And we're in an area of the country where it isn't out of the ordinary to expect that there would be at least one person in the room of any of those three faith communities.

 

The BSA is NOT a Christian organization. It's time to stop acting like it is. It's an organization that recognizes and encourages the belief in a higher power, but that doesn't mean Christian theology is the basis of all policy decisions.

[skeptic 992]

Bando;

 

While there are occasional religion specific prayers or devotional comments in group settings, most of the time they are pretty generic. My experience at large scout gatherings of obviously multi-denominations and religions is that an effort is made to be very careful in the invocation and so on.

 

On the other hand, people that are secure in their personal beliefs are really not threatened or upset when another belief makes public statements meant with good intent.

 

But, still, if it is a constant occurrence in your experience, perhaps a polite discussion with those in charge would be helpful.

 

JMHO