DanKroh 11 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Beaver, just out of curiosity, what is a "gay church"? Is it one that is accepting of gays and lesbians? Where the majority of congregants are gay? Or you have to be gay to join/attend at all? That phrase has always sounded stilted to me; are there "gay banks" and "gay supermarkets"? I've always wondering what people who use it mean by it? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I kinda like the "Local Option" that has been discussed at times. Since the Chartering Organization is charged with choosing the adult leadership of the unit, they would be, well charged with, well, choosing the adult leadership of the unit. Whoever they select as adult leaders are the unit's adult leaders. Be they gay or atheist or both. Also, the Chartering Organizaton also takes on all responsibility and liability concering the conduct of their leaders behavior. If a gay scoutmaster assaults a youth, then it is the Chartering Organization that holds the liability, not the BSA. In the past, I know there have been discussions that such an idea would not work because there are organizations that Charter units that do not want "gay" or atheist participation. Well, I am not sure how at combined event, such as Camporees anyone would know who was who. Youth Protecton rules are as always in effect as well as adult behavior. It's a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Dan, I refer to it as a "gay church" for lack of a better description and because it was started by my gay friend and it catered to and recruited from the gay/lesbian community in Dallas. Being gay was not however a condition of membership. Over the years, they did have a few heterosexual members join. You have heard of black churches haven't you? Link to post Share on other sites
Kudu 186 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 John-in-KC writes: "At the risk of waking Rick, and having him blow the Gilwell horn... B-P SFAIK was a non-smoker, and actively encouraged Scouts not to smoke." It was a purely practical consideration that predated Boy Scouts. His military reconnaissance manual, Aids to Scouting lists under "Qualifications for a Scout": "Healthy and sound. A man who drinks or who is liable to recurrence of certain diseases is useless for a scout." Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 >>If you'll read what I've been posting here, you'll see that I've written several times that when a belief involves harming anyone it is not okay. Link to post Share on other sites
vol_scouter 365 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Please all, do not confuse pedophiles with homosexuals. The homosexual movement in this country has done a good job in confusing the public. Pedophiles are only interested in pre-pubertal children and the abuse is typically heterosexual in nature. So a male pedophile will prey upon a pre-pubertal child most likely female. Homosexuals are the ones who abuse children of the same sex unless the crime is one of control (power or authority). Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between a crime of homosexual lust versus one of heterosexual control. From my reading, homosexuals are much more likely to abuse children of their same sex just as heterosexuals are much more likely to abuse children of the opposite sex. It amazes me how reasonable adults will agree that it is not wise for 2 heterosexual males to take a group of older girls camping but so no problem in letting 2 homosexual males take a group of older boys camping. Sexual abuse of children who have gone through puberty is NOT pedophilia. Link to post Share on other sites
vol_scouter 365 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Please all, do not confuse pedophiles with homosexuals. The homosexual movement in this country has done a good job in confusing the public. Pedophiles are only interested in pre-pubertal children and the abuse is typically heterosexual in nature. So a male pedophile will prey upon a pre-pubertal child most likely female. Homosexuals are the ones who abuse children of the same sex unless the crime is one of control (power or authority). Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between a crime of homosexual lust versus one of heterosexual control. From my reading, homosexuals are much more likely to abuse children of their same sex just as heterosexuals are much more likely to abuse children of the opposite sex. It amazes me how reasonable adults will agree that it is not wise for 2 heterosexual males to take a group of older girls camping but so no problem in letting 2 homosexual males take a group of older boys camping. Sexual abuse of children who have not gone through puberty is NOT pedophilia. Link to post Share on other sites
vol_scouter 365 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Whoooops! I mis-stated the last sentence of my post which should read: Sexual abuse of children who have gone through puberty is NOT pedophilia. Sorry for any confusion. Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The bookends of Scouting are God. "to do my duty to God..." and "reverent." Within the vast majority of American faith (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in chronological order), homosexuality is against God's will. Period. The last time I checked, God is eternal and unchanging. It's we mortals who want to change things to meet our own ideas. If you really want the verses, I'll cite them for you. It may take a little while to cite the Koran verses, but I'll find them. Link to post Share on other sites
AnniePoo 13 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Sorry, SR540Beaver. I did jump to a conclusion about your statement. Link to post Share on other sites
Novice_Cubmaster 10 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Within the Judeo-Christian ethic, homosexuality is against God's will. Period. Just like eating pork & shrimp... Oh, yeah. That got dropped to make Christianity (Judaism Part Deux) palatable to Greeks & Romans - ie: pandering to the masses for higher membership. Not every religion has a problem with homosexuality, or sees it as an impediment to being morally straight. But the BSA will also pander to the larger religions for higher membership. NC Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 >>Not every religion has a problem with homosexuality, or sees it as an impediment to being morally straight. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Barry, generally only the agrarian monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) view homosexuality as a sin. Most of the other religions in the world are more tolerant of such naturally occurring human diversity. Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Trev, old friend, We're talking about our Scouting Association, not one in Japan or India. When you sum Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in the United States, you have the by far majority of the population. To Novice Cubmaster, may I point out to you that Christ Himself says not one word of the Law has been removed. May I point out to you that Orthodox and Conservative Judaism, at least as practiced in the United States, still adhere to no pork. May I point out to you that Islam also holds in no pork. So what's your point about homosexuality? It's wrong in the OT, and it's wrong in the NT. Do not mistake the liberty granted the Christian in the era of grace for license. Link to post Share on other sites
Horizon 97 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Once again: The Methodist Church, the Presbyterian Church and the Episcopal Church in the USA are all opening their doors to gays and lesbians. To those who are telling us to leave Scouting if we don't agree - are you in 100% agreement with every single rule that the BSA has? We have rules that we change over time, and this might be one of them. Link to post Share on other sites
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