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SCOUTER-Terry

America wins...

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Do we think that 5% of America who hold 60% of the nation's wealth (figuratively speaking) will stay put if their money is being taxed heavily? There are always creative ways for these folks to dance around the item. Do you think that the Corporation who enjoys tax break because they keep their production plant in the US will stay on our soil for long now that the tax break may evaporate? The world is great when nirvana is reached, but unfortunately in the equal world, there are some who are more equal than others and the rest of us will fall in line. My family income is no where close to make a dent ... so I'm not fretting or worrying about the "what ifs." Now, our family's debts, on the other hand, need attention. I'm fairly sure that the rest of America is same boat. That's why we suffer the effect of bad loans and credit problems that are occuring.

 

Scouter-Terry: if there is no passion in a polical discussion, then there is no politic! :)

 

1Hour

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Here's part of what's driving the mandate: the Republican Party just got a whole lot smaller yesterday. I wasn't the only one who left the GOP... across the country in down ballot offices the Republican brand is tarnished, this following 2006 and there's simply no mistaking the country's message. And if you look at the exit polls between those under 40 and those over, I'd say it's likely the Republican brand has been devastated for a generation.

 

Yes, the Republican Party became smaller... geographically and demographically. The question remains whether the GOP will also become smaller idealistically. Whether the triangle of doom I mentioned in my first post -- the religious fundamentalists on one angle, neo-con imperialists on the second, and anti-government types on the third - will splinter further, or double-down and drive the party further to the margins. We'll see if Palin (who as a vessel appeases all three of these fringes) sticks around.

 

This is a "slightly right of center" country that just elected a "slightly left of center" President (spare me the "most liberal ever" fantasy), and generally moderate Democrats to Congress and down ballot, nearly across the board. The reason that happened is because the GOP stopped being "slightly right of center", and allowed its lunatic fringe to define the party.

 

 

TERRY HOWERTON

 

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Terry,

 

I'm prepared to give the man a chance as I did with Carter and Clinton. Didn't work too well with those guys, but I'm an optimist. Having said that, the "most liberal ever" thing is something to watch. The Democrats (1992) have a history of taking these things as a mandate for the more loonie of their ideas. Remember what happened in those days? Republicans came back with a vengence. Clinton did serve two terms, but mostly with a Republican congress.

 

I can't escape the fear that, having been elected, Obama will now revert to his more liberal roots and try to govern from the far left. I hope you are right and I am wrong. Nothing would please me more than to see our first non-white president succeed big time and I feel a strong empathy for black folks my age who endured sitting in the back of the bus and "white only" water fountains and waiting rooms. It must seem like a dream come true for them. I hope it is.

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I watched the speeches. Both were wonderful. McCain was gracious and Obama was inspirational. I am not optimistic.

Ohio_Scouter, my wallet has already taken a 50% hit. The retirement I once looked forward to is now not possible. I doubt that Obama can top that.

If the popular vote is now being touted as the basis for non-mandate, I sure wish we could go back and apply that standard to the 2000 election. Otherwise, the vote that counts is 349 (Obama) vs 147 (McCain). My math makes that roughly 70% to 30%. I'd call that a mandate.

 

Terry, don't take this the wrong way...I am pleased that Obama was elected. However, he was elected primarily because Bush dragged McCain (and the country) into an abyss. I could be wrong but if the Republican Party is affected for a generation it will probably have more to do with bad memories held by the people than with whatever merit Obama can martial. I really hope I'm wrong about Obama and that he can turn this thing around.

Who cares anyway about the future of either party?

The speeches were really nice. They count for almost nothing. The legacy Bush has left is crammed with gargantuan problems. I wish Obama well but I am not optimistic. At least we had a choice between two honorable candidates. Best of all...it's finally over.

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We do indeed live in an amazing country, and one that we we have reason to be proud of as citizens. But we have elected a man who says he wants to "fundemantally change" who and what we are as a nation, and that should concern anyone who understands the uniqueness of our nation in the world since the birth of our Constitution.

 

Obama wants to "redistribute wealth". I heard a a woman being interviewed on the radio a couple of days ago who said that once Obama is elected she will no longer have to pay her mortgage or make a car payment ever again. Do people really believe that is truly going to happen. Should it really happen? Do we really want or need a government to tell us how much money we can make, and who we should share the fruits of our labor with?

 

Obama says he wants to establish "a civilian national security force thats just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. As the Armed Forces." That statement alone is frightening in a free society. People who have immigrated here from communist countries must be having deja vu of the very elements of their lives under communism that made them flee to the USA.

 

Obama's other plan is to bankrupt the coal industry if you are to believe what he says. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.

'Its just that it will bankrupt them. Prepare to see your cost of energy skyrocket. Or, do you believe that he will make the top 5% of income earners pay for your electric bill as well?

 

Just how much of your lives do you think the top 5% of income earners should pay for you. And what incentive will you have to ever better yourselves?

 

Liberal lawmakers have crippled moderate and low income families in this country making them dependent on the government, making them dependent on keeping liberal lawmakers in office. It is a form of civic extortion.

 

To believe that Obama is only slightly left of center is politically naive. To think that the effects of this Presidency will only last 4 years is short sighted and unsupportd by history. Roosevelt's welfare state lasted far beyond his presidency. Once you make people feel entitled to money from the government you can never take it back.

 

The government is not supposed to be a means of personal income. We are not children who need to be taken care of by a parental and controlling government. This is a presidential choice that I think will be regretted for a long time to come.

 

In my home state there was a referendum to hold a new constitutional convention for the primary purpose of creating a recall process to remove a very unpopular govenor. While I dislike the governor I voted against the convention. The reason is I want the voters to take the voting reponsibilty seriously. Rather than be reckless as citizens and relying on their ability to remove the polictian later if they decide they don't like him.

 

I have said before that all elections (whether for the senior patrol leader or the President of the United States) are popularity contests. This should prove it if nothing else does. We are a country that has become lazy as citizens, wanting only to hear what we want to hear. Selecting politicians that offer offer us handouts and pretty words, rather than electing people who will protect the things that have made us the land of freedom and opportunity that so much of the rest of the world has tried to achieve.

 

This is not a man who likes the United States of America. This is not a President who wants to see the people or our country succeed. We have had bad presidents before, we have one again.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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pack,

 

I know your wallet has already taken a 50% hit, and the retirement you once looked forward to is now not possible. After having worked for over 40 years, I can't plan on retirement either because most of those savings have been squandered by Wall Street crooks. But I wouldn't be so sure that Obama'claus couldn't top that. Guess we'll just have to wait and see next year.

 

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"Do we really want or need a government to tell us how much money we can make, and who we should share the fruits of our labor with? "

 

"Do people really believe that is truly going to happen.?"

 

Obama's comments on coal fired power plants were related to a cap and trade system on carbon emmissions. Something both he and John McCain support.

 

"Once you make people feel entitled to money from the government you can never take it back."

 

Like the some 1800 banks lining up for the Bush corporate wellfare program? With the auto companies lining up behind them?

 

Like Pack, I have reservations about Obama, but truely wish him the best. He has taken on an enormous burden and I pray he is up for the task. I believe his leadership will be far more pragmatic than his detractors predict. The alternative had their chance and we are where we are. Time to change guard.

 

SA

 

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I didn't pay much attention to what was being said before the election from either side. Why? Because it really doesn't matter what is said beforehand. It's what is done after the fact that matters.

 

I want to provide this joke that kind of describes what I mean:

A powerful senator dies after a prolonged illness. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

 

"Welcome to Heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

 

"No problem, just let me in," says the guy.

 

"Well, I'd like to but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in Hell and one in Heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."

 

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in Heaven," says the senator.

 

"I'm sorry but we have our rules." And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to Hell.

 

The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a club and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him, everyone is very happy and in evening attire. They run to greet him, hug him, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people. They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster and caviar. Also present is the Devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that, before he realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a big hug and waves while the elevator rises.

 

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on Heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him. "Now it's time to visit Heaven."

 

So 24 hours pass with the head of state joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns. "Well then, you've spent a day in Hell and another in Heaven. Now choose your 'eternity."

 

He reflects for a minute, then the senator answers, "Well, I thought that I would never have said it, I mean Heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in Hell."

 

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to Hell.

 

Now the doors of the elevator open and he is in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags. The Devil comes over to him and lays his arm on his neck.

 

"I don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and club and we ate lobster and caviar and danced and had a great time. Now all there is, is a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable."

 

The Devil looks at him, smiles and says, "Yesterday we were campaigning...Today you voted for us!"

 

---

I will say that Obama is not my ideal candidate, but I listened to his speech last night and I will be interested to see what happens. I believe it's the first 100 days a President is in office that gives us a glimpse into whether America made the right choice or not. I intend to wait until then to decide..

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Well, a few non-politically correct obsevations

 

Now that we have a black president elect, does that mean Louis Farrakhan stops calling the US racist? As we just elected a black president? Then again, I thought we were electing a presidnt, someone to lead us, leastwise thats what I thought

And speaking of Louis Farrakhan, does Obama's election eliminate the reason for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other noted "black leaders" to exist? (actually I was never sure who voted for them in the first place)

 

Having Obama as president in kinda like when Vanessa Williams won the Miss America pageant, it made Miss Black America passe. Does this make Jackson/Sharpton et al passe?

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Not at all, Al and Jesse will still be around because Miss Black America is still around.

 

I still want to know why it is okay to have Miss Black America but not Miss White America. The Society of Black Engineers, the Society of Women Engineers are okay but not the Society of White Male Engineers. Why?

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OGE,

My uncle told me last night he saw an article stating an Obama win would ruin Jesse Jackson as a power broker. No one would be interested in him any more. When I saw Jesse crying last night, I had to wonder if those were tears of joy, or of sorrow. Who knows, maybe a little bit of both.

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Well Melvyn, it may be legal but not permissible. When I was an engineering students a group of my classmates tried to form such an organization but the university refused the application because it was deemed to be both racially and sexually discriminatory.

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Coming from Obama's home state I can safely say that a lot of people bought the sizzle and not the steak. Had it not been for Cook County (Chicago and it's suburbs) Obama would have lost his own state. he was elected by the people who bought the promise of having their mortgages paid for them and the dream of not having to work to improve their lives because the government will take money from those who are willing to work and give it to them in trade for their vote.

 

He has no Senate experience. Obama spent more time campaigning as a presentential candidate then he spent in the senate. As a Senator here is a list of the the things he accomplished for our State.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A dynamic leader? What has he lead?

 

Look at the election results by counties. In most states where Obama won he did not win in most counties in the state. The results are consistant. Look at Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Florida he won in the urban counties where large populations of low income or no income voters were promised welfare in trade for a democratic vote. If welfare worked then why, after the decades that it has existed, are there still low income or no income families in this country? Liberal politicians cripple people into depending on the handouts of government. They see them as a vote that can be bought, as as long as they are kept needy they can be bought election after election.

 

What you will see in 4 years that there are more people on welfare, not less, because that is how liberal politicians know they can control the vote.

 

Obama may well indeed change this country at a very fundemental level. And we will all be the worse for it.

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