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SCOUTER-Terry

Ten reasons I’m voting for Obama and against McCain

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I'm not crazy about anyone running this time. I am probably more conservative than anything else.

 

Meeting with someone in a board room four times a year is one thing. Meeting with them in their home when both are adults is another thing entirely. What was said by Ayers was not when Obama was a youth, but in 2002 and since.

Adding another Cabinet level department is just bigger government. The Federal Government is already too big. Instead of adding Cabinet Levels, we should be cutting Cabinet Levels. (i.e. Education, which the Constitution states is a right of the State, not the National government). The more we add to the Federal Government, the more it costs the taxpayer.

Appointments to the Supreme Court in the next couple of years will affect us for many years. Obama is just too liberal.

The last thing for Obama is the spreading go the wealth. That is one of the main tenets of Socialism, Marxism and Communism.

 

As for McCain. A true American hero, but tied to too much of the current bunch in Washington.

 

Having a President and a Congress of the same party is not necessarily a good thing. The Checks and Balances of the Constitution is bypassed when that happens.

 

IMHO, there is no good choice this year, but I will decide and vote.

 

If you don't exercise your right to vote, then you have no right to complain.

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Yah, BA, I hear yeh, eh? Though again, we have to admit that Senator McCain went on vacations to the private residence of a man actively engaged in monstrous fraud - a far closer relation than Obama to Ayers. That's a living room for weeks alone with the man, not living room for one night with a whole mess of other people.

 

I really don't care about Ayers for two reasons, eh? First is that there's a big difference between an academic Marxist and a real-life Marxist. Academic Marxists are self-deceiving idealistic intellectuals, eh? They're mostly harmless. :) What they idealize is life on a kibbutz, eh? They're not Mao or Lenin.

 

Second is that when people do grassroots politics, they meet in living rooms. Often just whoever has da biggest living room, which is usually not the living room of a young public advocacy attorney. Generally speakin' whoever is offering the living room ain't one of the leaders, they're a follower or wannabe. And I have to admit I've been in a lot of people's living rooms over the years even not doing grassroots politics. Some of them I didn't much care for.

 

I've listened to the Obama radio show bit on the Warren Court. I agree with him, eh? The Warren Court stayed within constitutional bounds. It pushed the envelope in some unfortunate ways, but wasn't "radical." Just misguided, a product of da Civil Rights Movement and other groups over-using litigation. Obama was dead-on on that score. Struggles for changes in longstanding law belong in the legislature, not the courts. School busing was an absolute disaster. Roe v. Wade another example of misguided and divisive litigation. In that way, I reckon Obama is much, much more conservative than the Jesse Jackson militants, eh? Obama even has the nerve to tell black parents they need to step up and take responsibility for their kids. No wonder liberals like Jackson want to "castrate" him. :p

 

I just don't see any of that as particularly scary. Some of it I find true to conservative values, though plenty of his positions I disagree with, eh? But they're not scary. I may be wrong and may have misjudged the man in the end, and I worry a bit about the excesses of a Democrat congress. I've been wrong in da past, especially given what Republican Congresses have done!

 

Beavah

 

 

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Yah, I see da news is just now reporting that Senator Obama's grandmother in Hawaii just passed away.

 

What a profound sadness that she didn't quite live to see the boy she helped raise become President of the United States.

 

What a bittersweet time this will make tomorrow's events for Obama.

 

What a blessing that the man had the character to take off in the midst of the campaign to pay his respects.

 

God bless the woman, who lived the ideals of family we all hold dear.

 

May He welcome her Home.

 

 

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Say good bye to bb guns and bow and arrows. Better get those loops before next year.

 

Since when is President of the united States an entry level position?

 

Can the President vote "Present" 130 times when presented with a bill?

 

Is it really ok to terminate a living breathing baby outside the mother after a botched abortion?

 

250k last month 200k 2 weeks ago, 150k last week. What is the definition of wealthy in America after the election? 15k?

 

A wise man said many years ago that a Democracy could only last until the population realized that it could vote itself wealth. Is that what we are doing now?

 

 

 

 

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For those who think an Obama Presidency will be the end of the world as we know it, we have survived every other President and we will survive the next. Changing the American government is like turningan aircraft carrier. It happens slowly.

 

As for the Marxist/Socialist claims......who here honestly thinks that both parties don't support entitlement programs? Who here thinks that both parties don't support a progressive tax system? Who here thinks that both parties don't support bailouts and nationalizing things like banks, mortgages and insurance. We already have all of those things and both parties are complicite in them. Obama won't be any worse than Bush.

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we have survived every other President and we will survive the next. Changing the American government is like turningan aircraft carrier. It happens slowly.

Yes, but the next president will put probably two justices on the Supreme Court. He likes Ruth Ginsberg and thinks the Warren Court was not radical enough. In four years, he will start programs that cannot be stopped. No entitlement program ever is. We will survive him, but the country will be fundamentally changed.

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Kahuna

We just survived eight years of an intellectually challenged president who has done nothing more than massively raise the National debt, got us involved in unnecessary conflicts, and appointed two of the worst supreme court justices in the history of the court. What are you gun toting, ultra right wing conservatives even thinking. Oh thats right you guys prefer others to do your thinking for you, just like your current leader does, lol. Obama will be a cake walk by comparison, it will be nice to see intellectualism return to DC after an eight year absence.

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Beavah,

You must have a different take on that radio interview than mine. The way I see it, Obama is disappointed the Supreme Court didn't go further, and that other activities weren't successful in bringing about redistributive change. He thinks we still suffer from that.

 

Do you see that? He believes in redistribution, to settle old scores! Can you say 40 acres and a mule! Only it will be dollars, instead. He wasn't talking about changes in marginal tax rates in that interview, he was talking about taking from the rich and giving to the poor, or whoever's civil rights were violated. Just a little "spreading the wealth around." Is it that hard to see? He sees "fairness" through the lense of a Marxist.

 

You are right - if the Ayers connection stood alone, I wouldn't pay it much attention. But add in the other parts - from his memoir, Rev. Wright, his comment to Joe the Plumber, his redistribution interview - way too much for me to ignore.

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The responses against Obama are spooky, almost Pavlovian recitations of really, really tired talking points, half truths and outright lies.

 

The "socialism" thing is a complete canard... as Beaver said, who doesn't support a progressive tax system (where higher earners pay more)? The screams of "redistribution of wealth" may hold a shred of legitimacy if McCain was for a flat tax, but he's not. Is there ANYONE on this board who doesn't support "spreading the wealth around"? Really? Think everyone should pay the same share of road construction, eliminate all social safety nets for poor, elderly or kids? How about funding the military... should we just split the bill equally amongst us?

 

Obama cuts taxes for 95% of the country (there must be a LOT of wealthy people on this board screaming about how their taxes are going up). As for the highest wage earners, the tax rate is going back to where it was under Clinton, not any higher. The 90's were pretty successful, and revenues to the government were up (largely because high wage earners benefited from a booming economy).

 

The most likely Supreme Court retirees are Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. All liberal(ish) seats. How exactly will Obama's replacements swing the court so wildly liberal?

 

The "he lacks experience" argument holds absolutely no credence, if you accept Palin as ready to be President. The Presidency is about the "capital you bring to the job"... it's exhaustive, and there's no opportunity to personally grow or develop more intellectual heft once the job starts. Obama seems to have the intellectual capital today to make reasoned decisions, he executed a miraculous campaign (lest anyone though a black may with a Muslim sounding name would come out of obscurity, beat the vaunted Clinton-machine, and be 24 hours from becoming President?), and seems to take this challenge seriously.

 

Trying to taint Obama by association (especially Ayres, which is an absurdly tenuous association) is, in my opinion, grasping at straws.

(This message has been edited by scouter-terry)

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BadenP writes: We just survived eight years of an intellectually challenged president who has done nothing more than massively raise the National debt, got us involved in unnecessary conflicts, and appointed two of the worst supreme court justices in the history of the court. What are you gun toting, ultra right wing conservatives even thinking. Oh thats right you guys prefer others to do your thinking for you, just like your current leader does, lol. Obama will be a cake walk by comparison, it will be nice to see intellectualism return to DC after an eight year absence.

That is totally uncalled for in response to what I wrote, but just like a left winger. When you can't argue the facts, you call names. Fine for a Scouter, buddy.

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Terry writes: The most likely Supreme Court retirees are Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. All liberal(ish) seats. How exactly will Obama's replacements swing the court so wildly liberal?

Well, if you like their decisions that the 2nd Amendment doesn;t grant individual right to guns (although that was squeaked through in favor of the right) or that political entities can confiscate your property and build a shopping mall, I guess it's fine the way it is. I'd prefer a little less activism, thank you.

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Wow. I'm a little shocked to see the owner of this site play the race card, but I guess I should just get used to getting shocked, if Obama wins.

 

Tell me, where does democracy end, and socialism begin? Are we already there? Was it when we instituted the progressive income tax system? Or started taxing estates? Social Security? Welfare? Section 8 housing? Earned income tax credit? Or will it be when Obama starts giving more money to the 30% of Americans who pay no taxes, to be "fair"?

 

To me, there is a big difference between paying for government services and programs on a progressive scale, and redistributing wealth. I'm afraid that is where we are heading.

 

BTW, the definition of "rich" has already been lowered (to $150,000) and will go lower.

 

Finally, do you realize what is going to happen to energy costs when Obama starts making coal-fired plants pay for cap & trade carbon emissions? He is going to make Carter look like an economic genius!

 

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Kahuna - you missed the point. Obama may appoint liberal justices... but it's as a replacement to liberal justices. To claim this as something to worry about and that the balance of influence may shift wildly seems overly excitable.

 

This charge of "activist judges" has always been that they substitute their own views for those of the elected branches. But what about the current "conservative court" that did just that last year, ironically, by nullifying a key part of the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law?

 

Let's admit all judges are activists for their vision of the law. The question is whose vision is more faithful to the Constitution, and better for the nation.

 

 

TERRY HOWERTON

 

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Kahuna, you tell me what parts of my last post are not TRUE? They all are and you know that, the GOP has done an abysmal job for the last eight years. It is not name calling when you tell the truth. You may want to hide from it but you know it is the truth.

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>> where does democracy end, and socialism begin? Are we already there?

 

Yes. And we lept a heck of a lot closer over the past couple of months. Of course, I know you realize democracy and socialism are not alternatives to each other, and that Social Security, Medicare, school lunch programs and public schools are are a bit socialistic, right?

 

The point is how silly the argument is that Obama will somehow shift America into the USSR circa 1980. There's no part of his policies or statements that would support that contention.

 

>> starts making coal-fired plants pay for cap & trade carbon emissions

 

I'd guess at least two things will happen... clean coal technology will spread rapidly, as it's cost effective and better for the environment. That, plus there will be more need for innovation from the five million new jobs Obama wants to create by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future.

 

 

TERRY HOWERTON

 

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