One more lie

[kraut-60 10]

With regards to the way prisoners are interogated and treated, Why does the American public feel it has a right to know all the intimate details of how its military carries out its missions? In this day and age and since Viet Nam, the news media has broken open stories that put our armed forces in a less than stellar light, which leads the citizens to the conclusion that they have a "right" to know EVERYTHING that goes on in government and the military....what crap!

 

The citizens in this nation during the second world war were not provided with news media that spelled out every scheme or plan the government had going or was putting into action.

 

Can anyone here imagine what the reaction here in the US would have been had the news reported on the loss of 300 plus soldiers from the German e-boat raid on the port of Devon the week before the landings at Normandy...especially if the report stated all the pertinent facts that todays news will and does? Those men lost were practicing lnading on the beach at Devon because it closely resembled the beach code named "Omaha"...todays news would spell out EVERYTHING, with little to no regard for what the story would do to national security.

 

One can claim the moral high ground and cite scripture from any source they wish...the fact remains, war is a dirty messy business that MUST be left to those best suited to carry it out as effectively and as quickly as possible to minimze casualties to our own troops and attain the objective the military action neccesitates.

 

I am retired military, I will not underestimate any adversary I go up against to better ensure my chances of getting home alive...however I will not assign human value to the enemy...the second you see the enemy as a human being, you will hesitate...chances are the enemy wont, and you'll be dead. Those who are sheep have the luxury of the moral high ground, those of us who are sheep dogs cant afford that luxury as it has no value to us...our job is to protect the sheep from the wolves, not worry whether the wolf has rights.

[Rooster7 11]

CalicoPenn,

 

Not taking a side here, but... Do you think there are POW camps in Iraq somewhere, where GI's are being held captive? And if such camps exist, do you think the treatment of those GI's have anything to do with our treatment of insurgent POWs?

 

GW,

 

Yes you indeed think for yourself. I suppose thats a badge of honor. I think for myself as well, but I choose God as my god not my ego. Its not intelligent or brave or wise to mock God, but you do have a right in this country to do so. Enjoy it while you can.

 

[Gold Winger 9]

"You shoot at them, they capture you, hold a kangaroo court, find you guilty and just summarily execute you, right then and there."

 

They already do that. Haven't you seen the beheadings on TV? How about the bodies being dragged through the streets?

 

"Its not intelligent or brave or wise to mock God,"

 

I don't mock God, I mock religion.

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmm.... sheep, wolves, summary execution.

 

I don't believe I have ever heard more succinct and powerful arguments for civilian control and oversight of da military in my life.

 

B

 

[kraut-60 10]

Civilian control...ah Beav, we already have that...are you proposing even more unneccesary civilian meddling in matters they have no business being in?

 

Seems to me if we allow yet(more) civilian control and oversight authority with regard to military matters we may as well just surrender now and disband whats left of our military...then when the terrorists come calling, we can all hold hands and sing kumbahya and tell them what their rights are?

 

Any enemy in arms against the United States of America, not in uniform is subject to summary execution...deal with the fact or ignore it, but dont take those who serve to protect our nation to task with your haughty assumed morality...stick to talking like a yokel...leave the business of military matters to those best suited to them.

[Gold Winger 9]

"Civilian control...ah Beav, we already have that...are you proposing even more unneccesary civilian meddling in matters they have no business being in?"

 

The Germans in WW II is a classic case of political leaders meddling in military matters. The US of A in Vietnam is another case.

 

We train our military to the highest possible degree, we give excellent equipment, point them at the target and then say, "Play nice. Don't blow up blue buildings on Wednesdays."

 

To a very large extent the military are the sheep dogs protecting the sheep from the wolves. Sorry that you can't live with that, Beaver. Maybe your attitude is a good argument for compulsory military service, if you object on moral grounds you can be a medic.

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

On this date in 1983 two guys I was in the same platoon with were killed. I lived in the same building the winter before.

 

The guy that killed him didn't wear a uniform The people in Iraq don't wear uniforms. According to every land warfare class I ever attended they aren't playing according to "Hoyle". Therefore they don't get afforded the same rights.

 

I am for civilian control of the military, it has worked for 200 years.

 

I am against the armchair generals who never even had the stones to serve as a Private that watch the news and comment. Jack Nicholson played a crazy ficticious Colonel but he did have a point about the critiquing of the job they do.

 

Some Alaskan Island was invaded by the US Army in WW2, 26 American Soldiers were hit before they realized there were no Japanese on the island. If Mr. Bush did that today he would be burnt in effigy(and as "Coach" said, "Effigy? Why don't we burn 'em in Boston?")

 

 

 

Semper FI Cooper and Barrett our first duty is to remember

[Beavah 205]

Nah, GoldWinger, not a medic.

 

JAG.

 

There's a reason for da Constitution, laws, and the UCMJ.

 

And for USDB Leavenworth.

 

Yeh see, there's a difference between NCA micromanaging operations and the Congress and DOD setting the laws and regulations by which our military men and women are to govern their actions. The former, I agree, can be anywhere from annoying to stupid.

 

The latter is what makes us Americans, and better than those whom you call "towelheads".

 

The American People are not sheep.

 

America's laws are not optional for those who wear a uniform.

 

And if asked, I will happily assist in prosecutin' any "sheepdogs" who dishonor their oath and their uniform by acting otherwise.

 

Because yeh see, that kind of dishonor is what feeds the wolves.

 

All of us have friends and family and former scouts in uniform. Many of us have had friends and family die or be injured in the line of duty. Myself included. They died to protect our Constitution, values, and liberties.

 

There are bad men and criminals, and not all criminals wear uniforms. Yah, and sometimes, people not wearin' uniforms aren't bad men, but innocents caught in da wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Happily, in our system of government, all prisoners, whether criminals or enemy combatants, are dealt with honorably and according to laws.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Gold Winger 9]

"Nah, GoldWinger, not a medic. JAG."

 

There's two stumbling blocks. One, you'd have to learn to speak English. Two, you'd have to get a law degree.

 

BTW, I call them ragheads.

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)