Religion/Sexuality

[evmori 11]

Beware! Troll~!

[scoutldr 726]

The BSA only reflects the beliefs of its major supporters, without which the organization would perish. Personally, some of my best friends are gay or atheist (maybe both!). I think they live their lives just as "morally" as I do. Will God admit them to the rewards of Heaven? I don't know...not my call. All I can do is live my life the best way I can, which includes trying to mentor young men in Scouting. Do I wish we could offer it to all? Sure I do...but that's not the rules of the organization, so I do what I can with what I have.

[boomerscout 35]

in the Scouts during first grade? not at age six you weren't-not when you mention your "troop"

[boomerscout 35]

when you left after two years--what rank did you achieve?

[shortridge 184]

Just a reminder that this is a revived thread from last year (nothing wrong with that, certainly!), and that the troll OP already admitted lying about his Scouting experience.

[Herms 10]

Hash, re-hash... Give the Homosexual & Atheists issues a rest!!

 

As Scouters we all know BSA is a private organization with set rules/standards, and as such you either want to belong or find another group.

[sherminator505 10]

I've noticed that those who cannot defend the indefensible are usually the first to try to stop the discussion. Is that what is happening here?

[evmori 11]

I've noticed that those who cannot defend the indefensible are usually the first to try to stop the discussion. Is that what is happening here?

 

What is indefensible?

[sherminator505 10]

Injustice is indefensible. Keep in mind that segregation was the law of the land in this country for many years, and it was not blind, unquestioning obedience that changed this.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Mr. Boyce 13]

The OP has essentially confirmed that he is a troll. We all know this subject has been hashed to several deaths by now.

 

I would just point out that, in my opinion:

 

Science is still very inconclusive about homosexuality. We're still at a very early stage of understanding it.

 

I have read material that indicates that homosexuals are more often pedophiles (in the legal sense) than heterosexuals. (Sure, this is supposed to be an inflammatory idea in politics, but this seems to be the real case here.)

 

Previous generations did not take sexual abuse as seriously as we do know (remember the "Stranger Danger" scare story? No kid ever really knew what he was about, luring you to his car with candy. I always thought it was about getting sold into white slavery.)

[Mr. Boyce 13]

. . . and I'd like to add that I think religion is getting an awfully short stick in contemporary political discourse---exactly because some aspects of it do not happen to go along with the views of those in the political left. And the political left DOES have a great deal of influence in media and the culture.

 

(Probably because for many liberals, politics is all there really is for them, beyond themselves, and so they can join together in a kind of Religion of Politics, in a way that conservatives cannot.)

[sherminator505 10]

I see that you are making at least some effort to separate homosexuality from pedophilia, but you seem to be suggesting that you object to homosexuals because they are "more likely" to be pedophiles and cite sources you have read. I don't know what sources these would be, but I'd like to.

 

I also find your comments interesting because they clash with my own personal experience in which a Scouter (who later killed himself) molested several of my friends and fellow Scouts under the auspice of Scouting. This man did not claim to be a homosexual and in fact tried to appear as normal as possible. Pedophilia is about power, not sexuality, and it is dangerous to conflate the two as it does not address the real problem.

[DanKroh 11]

"I don't know what sources these would be, but I'd like to."

 

Sherminator, welcome to the discussion. However, beware of the sources you are likely to be cited to support this position. They are most likely articles written by discredited authors based on dubious information, and self-published without peer review, by organizations such as the Family Research Institute, which appears on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of hate-based organizations.

[NickP412 10]

okay where do i start lol.

 

Yeah he would have been a cub scout, but talking about archery and camping in cub scouts? I really would like to meet that cubmaster. I'm with Beavah, looks like somebody trollin

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we do at our day camp when i was a cub scout 10 years ago.

 

now let me say that i think i may be one of the only "kids" here. a lot of members here are adults, im only 17. so let me offer a "kids" perspective. atheist i dont really care about, im not afraid to be around them. however in scouts you should lead by example and the scout oath says a scout must be reverent. its sorta like a heath teacher eating junk food and telling you to eat good, you really should lead by example. so i see why there not allowed in scouts. we have a few in my troop and as long as they dont complain when we take them to vespers i dont care.

 

as for gays; i dont think they belong in the troop as adults or kids. i think most parents agree that one of the last thing they want to do is send there boys into the woods with a gay for a camping trip. as a boy i really wouldnt want to have a kid in the troop gay either. i mean we gotta change in the same tents and shower in the same shower rooms with the other boy troop members. i wouldnt feel comfortable changing with a gay guy around just like a girl wouldnt want a boy in her locker room.

 

i hope the bsa does not fold on this, and when im a dad i hope my kid can join the scouts that i grew up in.

[Mr. Boyce 13]

It's very loosey-goosey to say pedophilia is "about power." It's not. It's a sexual deviancy and connects to the sexual interest. Heterosexuals as well as homosexuals can be pedophiles; however, the BSA is about boys/older youths and male---thus of more interest to homosexual pedophiles than heterosexual pedophiles. Hans Ziegler's book on scouting contains reference to research that shows homosexuals more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals. . . but he is not the original researcher. It would be interesting to see the original study, and determine what aspects of homosexual behavior made homosexuals more amenable to this deviant behavior. We know, for instance, that as a group homosexuals are more risk-taking and have greater interest in sex.

 

The BSA's policy, at the end of the day, is a pretty wise one, considering it is a large national organization, with many members and many contexts for member interactions.