Progressive Parents...

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Interesting use of words and I love sematics, but saying that, I have to comemnt. In the parent thread its says:

 

"Progressive parents won't enroll their kids in a program that exclude people based on religion or sexual preference."

 

So, I start to think, what about parents who wish to enroll their kids in a program that does exclude people based on religion or sexual preference? Does that make them "regressive parents"?

[jmwalston 11]

Can't say it makes them "regressive." Just proactive in their child's (children's) exposures. You can teach equality, you can teach morality, you can teach tolerance. You can demonstrate them repeatedly. But ultimately, the child will decide what he/she will accept as their personal standards.

[Trevorum 24]

I'd guess that a better word might be "traditional". By contrast, "regressive" parents might enroll their kids in White Supremacy groups...

[BulldogBlitz 10]

On a different site, this seems like a topic that would get way out of hand very quickly.

 

BSA discriminates, no? Are girls allowed to become cub scouts, weeblos, or boy scouts? Women can be leaders, but there aren't girl cub scouts (or are there? and i am just a neanderthal trapped in the cave). Why should we strive to include every group? These are the values we have grown up with.... belief in God and Country. If I am a atheist, satanist, or communist (or whatever anti-scout oath), why would I want to join the BSA? Why would I want someone to force the BSA to "include" me?

 

I suppose I am looking at it in simple terms. Vegetarians know not to go to a steak house. ;-)

[jmwalston 11]

Trev,

 

That doesn't guarantee anything. Even the Amish let their children reflect and make a life choice when they reach adulthood. And did you know that the Klan charges dues to be a member? Hate ain't alway free.

[evmori 11]

Yeah progressive parents! (loud guffaw)

 

I wonder how many of these "progressive parents" have friends that are homosexuals or atheists? Wonder if they are members of their card clubs?

 

Wanna bet the answer is "NO"!

[OldGreyEagle 5]

BullDog, I guess it depends on what you mean as a satanist or a communist. One could say that the very early christian church was very much a communistic community. Everyone took care of everyone else which moved the comment from Tertullian "See how these Christians love one another". The problem is, in recent times, say from 1900 on, I am not sure there has been a true Communistic Society of any import.

 

Satanist is another nebulous term, do you mean one who worships evil? Participates in a "Black Mass" or one who worships spirits unknown to most?

 

The problem with using the word Tradition is just what is meant by Tradition, Tevye's comments notwithstanding?

 

The terms Tradition and Family Values are huge sinkholes of rhetoric. I can say I hold to traditional family values, but what does that mean? Something quite different to most of us than to the polygamy group in Texas I am sure.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

I don't see any ethical difference between parents enrolling their kids in Restricted clubs vs. the BSA. And I too would like to know what Mazzuca means by "diversity" and "all kids" in his statement (but I won't get my hopes up, considering earlier statements by him).

[Horizon 97]

evmori:

 

I have friends who are homosexual. I have friends who are atheists. Both groups are regularly at my house for dinner and drinks, though we do not play cards. The Youth Director at my church is gay, and he is the one working with my son on his religous award.

 

So count me as one Scoutmaster and Eagle who could be considered progressive based on the definition thrown out here.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Horizon, that is the point that I was trying to make, clumsily as it appears, you say you are "progressive" as far as the definition thrown out here and I ask if that means people who beleive opposite to you are then "regressive". Now, perhaps to you they are, but saying that you are progressive and the "other guys" are regressive only serves to label each group and get people talking about labels rather then the real issue. Do people have the right to enroll their children in a program that has the same values they do. No mention of judgement, no saying the group is progressive, regressive, modern, old fashioned, just that there is a group that has values some people want.

 

The issue then becomes, if BSA wants to expand membership, then it may have to look at its membership qualifications. Does it say that sexual orientation of adult members is not an issue and that Atheists are also welcome. I am torn myself. I don't see how much different the BSA would be with gay scout leaders, and no, I dont equate Homosexuality with pedaphilia or whatever term is used with adolescents. I know so many troops that do not have much of a religious component so that an Atheist in it wouldnt have to much trouble. Troops, or rather CO's that would require a faith would still be able to do so much as some CO's prohibit female adults.

 

Using lables just muddies the water. I remember the Abortian debate, if you are against abortion you are pro-life, so those who support abortion are pro-death. That didnt sound very good so they co-opted the phrase "pro choice". Is there some other terms that could be used instead of progressive, regressive, family values, tradiional values?

[packsaddle 753]

We also have gay and atheist friends with whom we often socialize. We don't play cards though (that would be sinful), but instead mostly things like dances, evening meals, campouts, and some travel.

As I survey this troop and the other local troops, if I exclude all the ethnic minorities that we have enrolled already, it is sort of taken for granted that BSA is a niche organization for the white, middle class.

[evmori 11]

Why would you care, Merlyn, what Mazzuca means? You aren't a member of the BSA so it has no effect on you!

 

Horizon,

 

Good for you! Glad to hear it! You are a rarity!

 

Gay youth director at your church? Now that's a double negative if I ever heard of one!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Ed, as a former member of the BSA, why shouldn't I care? The BSA as it is today is a dishonest, discriminatory organization; if Mazzuca can change either aspect, it would be an improvement.

[Horizon 97]

evmori: I don't think I am that much of a rarity where I live. As for our youth director, there are many churches dealing with the ordination of gays and lesbians at this time. The Presbyterian church goes back and forth on this issue with every Assembly. The Episcipalions are dealing with it as well, as are the Anglicans. Our director's interests are no more in young boys than our female music director - so I have no concerns with him (or her).

 

OGE: I understood your point. I personally do NOT apply the label of progressive to myself (though my church does consider itself part of the Christian progressive movement). I do not like labels because they too often morph into meaning something that people are not. Progressive vs. Traditional is probably where the line is right now, but we all know that it is not a simple continuum, but rather a 3 dimensional fractal combined with a Ven diagram!

 

As for what the CSE is referring to - who knows. My assumption is that he is more interested in ensuring that we capture the same percentage of immigrant and minority groups as we do of whites. That way Scouting does not dwindle away as the demographics of the United States changes.

 

 

[evmori 11]

There ya go again with the dishonest line, Merlyn! Ya got nothing to back it up with so drop it!