NY Times Blogs Online: Obama Quits His Church

[gwd-scouter 11]

Regarding responsibility of Christians to speak the truth no matter what: recent letter from James Dobson, among other things, states that if Obama is President in four years the Boy Scouts will no longer exist because of the chance Obama will have to select Supreme Court members.

 

"The Boy Scouts no longer exist as an organization. They chose to disband rather than be forced to obey the Supreme Court decision that they would have to hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys."

 

Talk about your fear mongering...

[Rooster7 11]

"The Boy Scouts no longer exist as an organization. They chose to disband rather than be forced to obey the Supreme Court decision that they would have to hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys."

 

Which part generates fear for you? The part about the BSA disbanding or homosexuals being allowed to sleep in tents with young boys? Frankly, if the BSA took such a stand and disbanded, I'd be saddened, but I would applaud their resolve. However, I doubt that day will come. And if it did, someone else would likely pick up the charter (so to speak) and continue the program. The saddest possibility, and unfortunately the most likely, some day this country will be idiotic enough to allow homosexual men to sleep in tents with young boys (as if it were a right). If youre in that group, I have no respect for you. More specifically, I have no respect for your ability to think and/or to defend goodness.

 

If you think Dobson is fear mongering then perhaps you should read Romans 1.

 

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20

 

Therell be a day when God will peer into the mind and heart of each man and all will be revealed. Now thats something we should fear.

 

[DanKroh 11]

Wow, look what happens when you change just a few words...

 

The saddest possibility, and unfortunately the most likely, is that this country is idiotic enough to believe homosexual men to sleeping in tents with young boys would be a threat to the boys. If youre in that group, I have no respect for you. More specifically, I have no respect for your ability to think.

[Rooster7 11]

Yes. Well Dan, you're entitled to change my words, but I stand by them.

 

I have little to no control over whatever happens today or tomorrow in this country. What I can control is what I think and what I embrace as truth. And I have come to the conclusion that the truth of God is plain to see, just as Romans 1 proclaims. That said, to the best of my ability, I'm preparing my heart, mind, and soul to stand before God one day. I hope you're doing the same.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[Vicki 11]

Just shows Dobson has no clue as to how the BSA operates - #1, SMs are selected, not hired, and individual chartered groups will select whom they please (#9 Circuit's potential unconstitutional dictates notwithstanding) and #2, YP dictates who sleeps with whom and that policy is securely consistent with various insurance/state guidelines around the nation.

 

Yes, I do think Dobson is fear mongering. Not to mention it does McCain no favors when people like Dobson start spouting extremist language any more than it did Obama a favor when that visiting minister spouted vitriol at Trinity.

 

Preserve me from extremists of all stripes.

 

Vicki (typo)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[packsaddle 753]

With regard to the passage from Romans, Rooster7 wrote, "Therell be a day when God will peer into the mind and heart of each man and all will be revealed. Now thats something we should fear."

Rooster, you're judging yourself too harshly I think, I won't judge you harshly for your mind or heart. Or was that your estimation of everyone else?

Just in case, and to set your mind at ease, I have no worry whatsoever. There. Feel better?

See, the thing is, if God is omniscient, he already knows my mind and heart and peering further should be a waste of time (actually he's already wasted his time just knowing it in the first place - I am so incredibly boring!). So seeing as how I'm not getting the expected feedback, I'm fairly confident that either: 1) all is well, or 2) this is just a steaming pile of hocus pocus and isn't real anyway. Either way I'm good. But thanks for caring.

P.S. You're probably good too.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Good grief.

 

The U.S. Supreme Court decision regarding the BSA membership "policy" had nothing to do with who sleeps in what tent. There are other BSA policies, real policies, ones you can find in training materials and officially published rules and guidelines, that cover that. (Who sleeps in what tent, I mean.)

 

As for the future of that particular Supreme Court decision, well... it was a 5-4 decision. Of course it can be overturned in a future case if one vote changes, and it doesn't even have to be a new appointment, there are precedents that have been reversed because a justice changed his or her mind. I tend to doubt that it will be overturned, and if it does, it will take more than just one presidential term to do it. One of the many things that Rev. Dobson does not seem to understand (well, he probably does understand) is that the Supreme Court can't just reverse itself, there would have to be a new case starting at the bottom of the federal or a state court system and start working its way up, with the plaintiff most likely losing every step of the way on his/her way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Whether anyone would really go through all that, unless and until it were very clear that the Supreme Court would rule differently, seems doubtful to me. But hopefully, if such a thing did become likely, the BSA would go for the compromise that people have been talking about ever since the original decision: Let local units make their own leadership decisions, unless there is specific reason to believe that a person is going to be danger to the youth, in which case there is no problem with National stepping in and barring the person from every unit everywhere. There is no need for a National policy based merely on an avowed adult-based orientation.

[vol_scouter 365]

First, I do agree that Dobson is doing some fear mongering. Clearly Obama will appoint activist judges who would likely overturn the BSA case. So while fear mongering, it is grounded and would likely happen at some point in the future.

 

What is both sad and frightening to me is that Christians are being labeled as extremists. By saying that there are certain things that are wrong, Christians are being reviled. These are the same values that have given us freedom and prosperity. These values have allowed this country to expand man's knowledge, help to abolish slavery, free millions of people from tyranny, and provide a country with religious freedom. Now, those same values are under attack. The left acts as if these issues are new. I have seen mainstream Christians and Boy Scouts go from being revered to reviled. Our society is going in a terribly wrong direction.

[BadenP 93]

It sounds to me like some fear mongering going on in this thread by the Bible literalists in here, and those who take scripture totally out of the context for which it was written.

 

Well guess what folks this election is all but over and Obama is going to be the next president according now to all the polls and so called political experts. So you can either run and hide for four years or come to the realization that the world is not going to come to an end because Obama is the president. So what if he gets to select two new supreme court justices he can't do any worse than the two morons W put in. Also remember Congress is there to block any real constructive change from happening, like they have the last eight years.

 

I also suggest to all you Bush supporters to go see the movie "W", it will open your eyes to the truth about him and that truth will set you free, Alleluia!(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[gwd-scouter 11]

As I see it, the justices that may retire in the next few years are on the liberal side (Stevens, Ginsberg, Souter?). If Obama is elected and appoints liberal justices as most people fear, it won't change the balance on the court. On the other hand, if McCain is elected, the balance would change dramatically.

[vol_scouter 365]

gwd-scouter,

 

I think that you are right about likely retirements in the next four years. One of the news stations was talking about this and said that Scalia is in his 70's. He might be replaced if he developed health problems or if Obama is president for 8 years. That would also significantly change the court for years to come.

[Rooster7 11]

BadenP,

 

Your serious acceptance and promotion of the movie W, tells me all I need to know about your politics, and your theology. Theres a chasm here thats not going to be bridged. Good luck on the other side, and enjoy the next four years (assuming the polls are correct) and all that it might bring. Just dont blame the previous administration when it happens.

 

[packsaddle 753]

Wow, Rooster have you seen that movie? I haven't but then I rarely watch movies and I'm fairly certain it's not showing anywhere close. What little I've heard from clips, I suspect I'll pass anyway. Waste of time...and who wants to relive, even humorously, the tragedy that Bush II has been for all of us?

With regard to that 'previous administration' comment, I'm glad that I can take Clinton and his predecessors off the hook for 9/11, the budget crisis, the economic meltdown, etc. It was all 'W'. We are agreed.

[Rooster7 11]

Packsaddle,

 

Bush isnt blameless. Im sure that there are some things that could have been done better or differently. But I dont hold the same view of him as you thats for certain.

 

Clinton had an opportunity to apprehend/kill bin Laden. If that would have prevented 9-11, then I guess you can make of that what you want. I dont blame him for 9-11. I blame the terrorists.

 

Pointing fingers at Presidents just goes to show you People want to believe that they (humanity) can control everything. All of our problems are solvableits just a matter of finding the right man (or woman) with the right intellect and human spirit to lead us and make it all happen. That appears to be the mantra of this generation and those to come. Otherwise, they may have to admit that their fate is in Gods hands. Or if you prefer to think like those folks who see no design in the World or any transcendent purpose for our being your fate is a matter of random events and probability. Why folks would rather believe in humanity (given our history) or random fate (given its randomness and meaninglessness), is beyond me. Perhaps those ideas are more appealing then being un-reconciled to a Holy and Righteous God.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[Vicki 11]

>What is both sad and frightening to me is that Christians are being labeled as extremists. By saying that there are certain things that are wrong, Christians are being reviled.>

 

There are extremists on either end of the Christian spectrum that need to be spoken against, lest non-Christians think we've all gone totally nuts. Because there's that huge mass of us in the middle who, for the most part, try to live our faith as best we can, look at those on both ends and shake our heads. I try to live by, "witness always, use words when necessary." Pretty much precludes judging anybody else - seriously not my job.

 

The following is not an attempt to create parity between the two situations, just an observation. I think that may be part of what's gone wrong in the Islamic world - the folks in the middle haven't spoken out against their extremists. Of course, I realize that's slightly simplistic given the volatility of their situation (too complex to go into here). But if that had happened back in the 50's and 60's, would we be in our current situation? If the Allies had known what the heck they were doing when they partitioned that part of the world? It's an interesting question.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)