DYB-Mike 10 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 If my memory of Youth Protection training serves me correct, NO male (or female for that matter) adult leader, heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual (havent heard any comment on that one), is allowed to sleep alone with a scout unless it were his (or her) own son. Then theres Two Deep Leadership, which helps to insure that an adult leader does not find himself/herself alone with a boy. The boys are taught to follow the Buddy System, which helps to alleviate the possibility of a boy finding himself alone in a restroom (or anywhere) with an adult. Safeguards are there. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKat 10 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Deal with this situation - - overheard at summer camp, father to 12yo son (verified). "_____ ,come on and take a shower with me." Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Deal with this situation - - overheard at summer camp, father to 12yo son (verified). "_____ ,come on and take a shower with me." And this needs to be dealt with why? Do you know there is something "wrong" going on? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
DYB-Mike 10 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I kinda have to agree with Evmori. Without more details one cannot really conclude that anything is going on. Do you know the scouter and his son? Is there a reason to suspect abuse? What were the shower facilities like? Were they an open, communal space? This makes me think of the motto of the English Order of the Garter: evil to those who evil think. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmomma 10 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Thanks to DanKroh and Packsaddle... Nessmuk, you may find James Dobson an authoritative source on psychology matters; I don't. He thinks homosexuality is a preference that can be "corrected" through counseling, a view that is rejected by the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Association of School Administrators, the American Federation of Teachers, the American School Health Association, the Interfaith Alliance Foundation, the National Association of School Psychologists, the National Association of Social Workers and the National Education Association -- see http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html Link to post Share on other sites
Nessmuk 10 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Even with the raging debate about what constitutes 'manliness".. (I'm good to go with ole TR's version of it.) WHAT IS (or should be) important to Scouters is that we are in the business of helping to build boys into good men -- That does not happen naturally by just growing up - a "man" is not an "adult male". "Within My Power" I was searching the web for something else today and found this by Forest Whitcraft - "Within My Power" in several places.. I never read it before. Tis very good ..(am I still allowed to say something is 'good' or 'bad'?) Hmmm. might be a bit too judgmental I dunno.. Aww I'll share it anyway.. http://www.pgcps.pg.k12.md.us/~kworth/1046/within.html Oh yeah - I didn't cut and paste cause somebody posted that it was not 'good' etiquette on the forum - not sure why. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hey! There will be no raging in this thread! This thread is about manliness, not, well you know! Link to post Share on other sites
Nessmuk 10 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Scoutmomma says " you may find James Dobson an authoritative source on psychology matters; I don't. He thinks homosexuality is a preference that can be "corrected" through counseling, a view that is rejected by the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Association of School Administrators, the American Federation of Teachers, the American School Health Association, the Interfaith Alliance Foundation, the National Association of School Psychologists, the National Association of Social Workers and the National Education Association -- see http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html" Well, Scoutmomma .. I don't give a hoot for a single one of those org's you listed .. They are mostly cesspools of socialism and humanism besides being a bunch of handwringers.. There -- how's them apples?? Oh and you forgot the Teacher's Unions, NAMBLA, GAYLA, and dozens others.. I did not say that pedo=homo, but I did say they are both deviant, unhealthy and LINKED. Furthermore, There is the idea that homosexuality is a behaviour spawned by mental disorders AND a perversion...Certain elements of society love to push any boy and as many boys into believing they're homosexual. It's part of the 'attack' on boys - and thus the men of the future. To assert homosexuals are not deviants (and are merely differently wired versions of heterosexuals) simply ignores the extreme lifestyle of perversion and promiscuity of homosexuals.. There are plenty of books written by those who lived that lifestyle, found Jesus and turned it around only to be able to see how bad it was after they got far enough away from it. In the early to mid 80's when the "closets" were really opening up, I made a prediction that not long after homosexuals were officially "accepted" the next slip down the slope was for pedophiles to begin harping about their "rights" and begin their march into acceptedness. (well, the following wasnt needed, I know that OGE) (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Jimmy D know his stuff! Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmomma 10 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I saw Nessmuk's original, unexpurgated message, and found it extremely offensive, so I thank OGE for editing it. As for the rest of the message, well, knowing that Nessmuk continues to assert that homosexuality is a mental illness, I don't see any point in further discussion. I'm done with this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Nessmuk 10 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Interesting situation.. Now with the moderator-edited post (which fundamentally is fine by me) one can't really be sure of what I said that Scoutmomma found so objectional .. This leaves it to anyone's imagination what I wrote in the post which really is somewhat biased against me now.. Because now folks are left to make up their own idea about what I said and judge me by that - as opposed to what I really stated. But hey, 'bias' is an increasing part of what one has to deal with today in the press, public forums, and in general when dealing with the Socialist element (in and out of Scouting).. If anyone was wondering what I posted (that was removed), I invited Scoutmomma to investigate (via an html link) the statements (that sound so similar to hers by the way) of an organization claiming to be promoting something so vile and horrible as 'natural and normal' (just like homosexuals do).. I did not use foul language or any such thing - as the censorship may make it appear. I suppose that having that link on the forum bothered the moderator (which I can understand) It bothers me that it even exists. Scoutmomma.. We can only "agree to disagree" on a matter so foundational. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 That was a manly response Nessmuk! Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Indeed I did not want that link on the forum or the name of the association that owns the website. We have experimented here that if you mention the word Llama enough, we get ads for Llamas. If we talk about that association, then we may get ads for that assoiciation or targeted products and I dont want that. I do think it very interesting that a person who holds views contrary to anothers can be accused of holding similar views with the antithesis of the scouting movement I try very hard not to edit posts and sometimes feel I let too much go because I want to be fair to free speech and will error on the side of being too lenient than strict. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmomma 10 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I had said I was done with this thread, but the email system alerted me that there was a response to the thread, so I had read it...and cannot let go unchallenged Nessmuk's implication that I am in agreement with the organization he had mentioned earlier. Nessmuk, my statements regarding homosexuality as not being a mental illness do not mean I am in agreement with that organization, and I am completely disgusted that you would imply any such thing. That's quite a lot more than agreeing to disagree. I do think it very interesting that a person who holds views contrary to anothers can be accused of holding similar views with the antithesis of the scouting movement OGE, I don't know what you mean by this, but it's oblique enough to sound like you agree with Nessmuk. Is that the case? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I was the one who took the offending words out and now you ask if I agree with Nessmuk? I was trying to explain, obviously poorly, that while I will edit a post, I try not to edit often, that is all. How that becomes I agree with Nessmuk I am not sure, but I dont agree with Nessmuks assertion about your attitudes on homosexuality Link to post Share on other sites
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