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BSA SCHISM- RED STATE SCOUTS/BLUE STATE SCOUTS


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C. Shoot an animal (or use your bear hands) and watch it die.

This can be consider psychotic type of behavior, especially in the young. All serial killers displayed this behavior in their youth.

I cannot see a rational adult tell a kid to kill an animal with their bare hands to watch it die, that is just sick. If that is not what you intended to mean, please restate that list.

B. Watch lots of Westerns, especially John Wayne and Clint Eastwood films.

These are so far from what really occurred during that time frame as to be absolutely ridiculous .  I bet you are one who loves The Alamo with John Wayne and believe the Alamo is out in the middle of the west Texas desert with no water anywhere around! (BTW do you know who Juan Seguin was?)

There is no such thing as a girly-man(ness). It is a made up term by an actor/ politician (when have they ever been known to tell the truth?)

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and a forester helped us locate the desirable and undesirable trees and shrubs.

Sometime I  think you make other such outrageous statements to get our goat  because you turn around and make these statements. That is not a description of slash and burn but of properly controlled harvesting.  A true forester picks and chooses what trees to take down for the overall benefit of the environment.   

 

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Fire Cat,

 

You're getting a little hysterical.

 

We cut those trees and shrubs down to create a nice view - for humans.

 

I really don't know if anyone understands what the "overall benefit of the environment" is. That smacks of arrogance to me as well.

 

The environment is indifferent. It only acts opportunistically.

 

The idea of synergetic harmonious eco-systems is a fairy-tale designed to make man seem out-group from nature.

 

Killing animals is not unethical or ethical. It is a benign act.

 

Deriving pleasure from the pain and suffering of another creature is truly disturbing-- this much I would agree.

 

But I think we have gotten off topic.

 

The role of man is to create a Heaven on Earth. He is trying to perfect his conduct and to perfect his earthly condition.

 

Scouting was designed to help boys by getting them out in the wilderness so they might experience living on their wits and with teamwork.

 

If we treat nature as a park, and something to visit, we are not being fully human. Man should feel at home in nature, and not as a guest. He should feel unashamed to think of her as something to shape, form, manipulate, extract from, utilize, and exploit for the betterment of Mankind.

 

This is why I suggested that scouting is not the same for everyone. I see scouting as a means of introducing boys to their manly relationship with nature.

 

Deride this all you want. The civilization that you call home was made by such people.

 

 

Pappy

 

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That entire argument can be reduced to: Might makes right.

 

(sigh)

 

As I said, there are lots of people with this mindset. I know some. They are often good folks to have a beer with, or swap stories over a campfire, or watch the big game on TV. However, I am sincerely glad we no longer have the likes of James Watt leading our nation.

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Firecat I tend to agree with you. I believe some of Pappy's rhetoric is simply to get other's worked up.

 

Pappy,

 

Do the scouts and scouters in your unit know, understand and agree to live by the Outdoor Code?

 

The Outdoor Code

 

As an American, I will do my best to -

 

Be clean in my outdoor manners.

I will treat the outdoors as a heritage.

I will take care of it for myself and others

I will keep my trash and garbage out of lakes, streams, fields, woods, and roadways.

 

Be careful with fire.

 

I will prevent wildfire.

I will build my fires only where they are appropriate.

When I have finished using a fire, I will make sure it is cold out.

I will leave a clean fire ring, or remove all evidence of my fire.

 

Be considerate in the outdoors.

 

I will treat public and private property with respect.

I will use low-impact methods of hiking and camping.

and

 

Be conservation minded

 

I will learn how to practice good conservation of soil, waters, forests, minerals, grasslands, wildlife, and energy.

I will urge others to do the same.

 

 

SA

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The Outdoor Code

As an American, I will do my best to -

 

Be clean in my outdoor manners

Be careful with fire

Be considerate in the outdoors, and

Be conservation minded.

 

We follow the rules when in Public and Private lands.

 

We practice high imapact scouting at our own Camp Site. We are in the business to teach our boys how to build and adapt the enviroment to human needs.

 

Leasure camping in "Parks" is a differnt skill set that we practice when camping in "Parks", and places other than our Base.

 

Pappy

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Hi Bob,

 

It is a Scout Camp FOS allow us to use.

 

Camp Jim Hill is an outdoor Scout camp. On the grounds we build (using pioneering methods) teepees, towers, bridges, and all sorts of structures. We have been given permission to eleimante all the Honey Locust and other undesirable trees and underbrush. (No small task, since every time you chop down a Honey Locust hundred of new saplings emerge in a shirt time- which are also handy for scout projects as well.)

 

We of course take special care to keep our site clean.

 

Pappy

(This message has been edited by Pappy)

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Hi Bob,

 

I never said I wasnt following it. I said I loathed the over-emphasis paid on this aspect of outdoorsman ship. It gets to the point of being girlish. I understand it is just plain good manners to leave a place the way you left it, especially if it is public nature preserves

 

But boys need to get out into outdoor classrooms that allow them to change things around. Move the boulders in a stream to manipulate flow. Fell trees and fashion things from them. Build a primitive astronomical calendar. Build shelters. Make things that activate their imagination and sense of play. We are planning to build a fort soon.

 

That is all.

 

 

I think the environmentalists sometimes get a little carried away, and try to feed our boys the same pap in scouting that they force-feed them in the Public schools.

 

Men also mine, fish, hunt, fight battles, make art, build dams, power plants, and cities.

 

We need to do more to emphasize those manly arts - because the boys are not getting them in schools and more and more dads are getting less and less handy.

 

Pappy

(This message has been edited by Pappy)

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"Men also mine, fish, hunt, fight battles, make art, build dams, power plants, and cities.

 

We need to do more to emphasize those manly arts - because the boys are not getting them in schools and more and more dads are getting less and less handy."

 

Well, I was going to make a comment, but I seem to have misplaced my machette for hacking through the sexism first. Guess I'm not "manly" enough.

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Have you checked out the Pioneering merit badge? Lots of things to make there that involve felling trees and you get to make your own rope. Then there is the Wilderness Survival merit badge where you do need to build a shelter to sleep in

 

Maybe you should define what "manly" means to you as you use the term a lot and I want to be clear

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I see a campfire over across the valley - I think I'll go see if the conversation happening over there is a little bit less offensive than the one here. This one is so offensive on so many levels, I just don't even know where to begin...

 

I call it the Nixon conundrum - either he was lying and shouldn't be president, or he was too stupid to be president. Same resolution either way. (And don't make assumptions about my political leanings based on that statement - I feel the same way about Clinton)

 

Either Pappy is trolling or he's too over the top to be given credence. Same resolution either way.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

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