All things Pappy

[evmori 11]

It's when the other groups are allowed to put up posters & the BSA isn't that chaps my shorts! It should be either all or none!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Egad Ed, you may be agreeing with Merlyn but I will let him make that call...

 

Pappy I have a question for you

 

I live in a pretty mundane residential section of town. Pretty much a quiet neighborhood. A couple houses down the street is a real nice couple, He works second shift so the wife runs a second shift day care center. Kids go there after school and stay until a parent picks them up or during the summer they start arriving at 3pm and stay until around 11pm or so. From what I understand the business has been going strong for over 10 years.

 

Then one night, their next door neighbor had a gathering during a school night and the resulting parked cars made it difficult for the parents to get their youth. The next day the wife mentioned about the inconvinence to the neighbor. Well, the neighbor had a melt down, marched in and called the police to report an unlawful business being operated in an area zoned residential and it was a day care to boot without a Day Care operating license. The village shut down the Day Care in a heart beat. I have a question, who is at fault?

[Hiromi 9]

The letter of the law was violated by the woman it seems. The spirit of neighborliness was suborned by the neighbor who reported her. If you are comparing his vindictiveness or her lawlessness with any of my positions I am all ears.

 

I understand the equality argument posed by the other posters, and I empathize, - but I think that a community can deicide that scouting is super-essential and traditional and an attachment to the school mission, like sports, and brownies. I think the school board ought to let groups of children with permission from their parents to hear presentations from visiting representatives of scouters or others. I don't see how this would go against the Public or the educational mission of the school.

 

It seems that the reductionism approach to the public schools is ridiculous. Let the parents fill out a sheet saying what groups they would not mind their children hearing from. Some can check off scouts, some may opt to have their kids not hear the scout message. Some may opt for their children hear from the local atheist, some may not. IT could be equal access and equal choice and democratize the process more fully.

 

Pappy

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Pappy, the BSA's religious discrimination make it absolutely impossible for it to be any part of a public school's mission. There are still people who think official Christian prayers are part of their public school's mission and a decades-long tradition, and they're wrong, too.

[Hiromi 9]

This probably points to another reason why we home school our children. To us, public school, and most parochial schools for that matter, are a form of day-orphanages with a socialist authority and mandate.

 

You are quite right I suppose. It is impossible to mix them since they are at cross purposes.

 

Pappy

[DYB-Mike 10]

Massachusetts does allow limited distribution of BSA materials in the schools.

 

http://www.doe.mass.edu/lawsregs/advisory/boyscouts.html

 

Im not a lawyer but if Im reading this right the local school committee may elect to create a limited public forum for groups that may have discriminatory policies that the school cannot sponsor. It also appears that they can limit the limited public forum to certain types of groups. Does this mean that they can allow the BSA but exclude the KKK from distributing literature?

 

The date of this memo is 11/15/00 but as I havent come across anything more recent I assume its still in force.

 

Our Pack was allowed to distribute materials in the lobby of our local elementary school on a Parents Night. At our Pinewood Derby recently one parent who is a member of the school council of the elementary school our kids attend suggested that the Pack lend our track (we have a nice aluminum one with an electronic finish line and associated software) to the school and maybe get some recruitment benefit out of it in return. I dont know where thats going to go or if that would be beyond the bounds of the limited public forum

 

YIS

Mike

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Ah yes, the letter of the law was broken by the woman. Now, as to the nieghborlyness of the neighbor? What if the complaint was made from one of the attendees of the gathering who lives in another town? What if the complaint was made from someone who over heard the situation from the attendee out of town. Does that make the woman breaking the law better or worse? Is the law any less broken depending on who complains about it? If we are proud to be a nation that is ruled by Laws (and I think we are) then Laws have to apply to everyone or they are meaningless

 

Blaming Public Schools for what they do or dont do as a whole is rather silly. Its not like all Elementary and Middle School and High Principals take a pledge to harass the BSA. I find it hard to beleive that there are no Catholic, Jewish, Baptist etc Public School Principals who would love to allow the BSA access to their school but realize to do so would mean the KKK and related groups would have the same access. I think it may be time to stop demonizing (there you go Pack, a demon reference)Public Schools as the source of our ills. Its nice to blame people, but it doesnt solve the problem, perhaps we should be as energetic solving problems as we are finding blame

 

The BSA said it was a religious organization and we have to live with it.

[packsaddle 753]

Contrary to what my old Presbyterian minister used to preach, demons are myths too.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

DYB-Mike, a public school couldn't just say by fiat that the BSA can use their forum and the KKK can't; that's deciding on the content of the group's message, which (as the memorandum says) can't be used as a criterion. It's possible that a school would have a forum only open to, say, non-profit organizations, but there's nothing stopping the KKK from forming a non-profit group and qualifying. There's no legal distinction between a group that says whites are the best kinds of citizens vs. one that says god-believers are the best kinds of citizens.

[Hiromi 9]

If people act like demons-then demonizing them is just good journalism. It is demonic to fight organizations like BSA for their policies. That is my point of view. And an ill-informed demon is just as dangerous as a rather intentionally evil one.

 

Pappy

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Pappy, as soon as I figure out what you said, I am sure I will have a reply

 

Pack, I beleive in Demons/Devils/Satan what have you

 

I beleive that angels exist and therefore I beleive devils/demons/whatever also exists. Good is always balanced by Evil. Now, what was it that McCoy said about good and evil fighting?

[evmori 11]

On this, you are correct OGE! Scary ain't it!

[Hiromi 9]

If I could ask Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903) what he meant by demons, I would.

 

"Saint Michael, Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And you, Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into Hell Satan and the other evil spirits who prowl the world for the ruin of souls. Amen."

 

I beleive you will indeed know people by their fruits. The fruits of public schools is rather apparent to me. And the more people consciously or otherwise try and deprive boys and girls of proper civic and spititual formation, the more societal ill and evil will spread.

 

Pappy