All things Pappy

[Hiromi 9]

Hi Fellas,

 

The Handles are in a great fun. In fact, over time the boys were given the opportuity to change there handle. Currelty we have such handles as

 

Smokey bear, Snake Eyes, Saber TOoth, Tank, Pan Am, Chief, and Hog.

 

It is definetly in the spirit of gamesmanship and imagination. I think boys love pretending. ANd the handles help give them a scouter game identity.

 

Those games are more like a klodike (with stations to perform tasks,etc.) then war games. But calling something a mine field, or to be capable of watching for ambushes and trip wirtes and booby traps is a very fun way of teaching that old scout sjkill of being alert to your surroundings.

 

THanks fot the feed back.

 

About the Religion thing. I submited it with paragraphs. I think OGE, when he removed my name at the bottom, somehow inadvertantly compressed the text into that blocky format. It did give it a UNIBOMBER kind of screed feel, didn't it? SOrry for that. I am very interested in scratching up conversation about things like "How much should faith inform scouting?" Or "WHat should be the foramtion of young men, why, by whose authoirty, how, and should it be scouting that does the forming?"

 

Another question BEav or OGE, Are we able to go into our old threads and edit them after they have been submitted??

 

 

Pappy

 

 

 

 

 

[MarkS 11]

Morse Code suggestion... I'm not sure how you're teaching Morse Code but if you're using the dot and dash symbols, you're making it harder than it has to be. You should teach the sounds, the boys should be thinking that "A" sounds like di-dah, or "B" sounds like dah-di-di-dit and just writing it down. With enough practice they'll start recognizing words and will be able to head copy and just writing down notes. When you hear "my name is" enough times, you don't copy that and just write down the guy's name.

 

It's harder to learn I just heard di-dah, which is .- which is an "A." Copying the code is easier than translating it.

 

Trust me, they'll learn it faster this way. I'm a ham and my favorite mode is CW. If this is how you're teaching it? Great job!

 

di-di-dah-dit...dah-di-di-dit.......dit...di-di-dit.......dah-dah-di-di-dit...di-di-di-dah-dah.......di-di-di-dah-di-dah

 

(the periods represent the timing space between letters and words)

 

BTW... You're full stop is really a period and your query is really a question mark. There are prosigns that should be used for communication protocol (e.g. back to you, standby, over, etc). For what you're teaching, they don't seem to need to know them but from your posts, I expect you wouldn't want to teach them something that's not right.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Hiromi 9]

Great advice Mark.

 

Yes, when it is taught in meetings, that I use a small keyboard- or I have actually just sang the code on occasions. BUt what you said is absolutley correct. I don't have them think in tems of Dsh and Dot but thing like Da-dooog - Di - it! and other memorable sound combinations.

 

THank you for the feedback.

 

By the way- another scoutmaster told me that John McCain didn't actually ude Morse ode in the VC prison. Do you know what code he used to communicate to his prison mates if not Morse?

 

Thanks

 

Pappy

[MarkS 11]

No but I think it was some variation because they were tapping on walls. It's difficult to get the 1:3 timing between a dit and a dah when you're tapping on a wall because a scrape may not be heard on the other side while a tap would.

 

Also. Just realized your test message is not really representative of a real emergency call. In a real emergency you would send SOS serveral times followed by your ID, wait just a few seconds for a reply, and repeat. Once you get a reply, you then send your location and situation. This is because if a listener is tuning across the radio band looking for a signal, he's more likely to hear the SOS part of the message and respond. With your message he's likely to miss the "send help" part and just hear the latter part of your message where you give your location, he won't know it's an emergency, it might not interest him and he'll keep tuning to another signal that's calling for a contact. Of course, your message would be representative of what you might transmit after you've gotten a reply to your call.

[Hiromi 9]

Thanks again Mark.

 

Do know of any good websites that are authoriative on the subject of Morse code and proper emergency transmissions? Would it be a ham radio protocol?

 

Also - do you know anything about making a home-made buzzer that could be used to send transmissions in an emergency? Probably if the scout had access to electrical power, they wold probably have access to a phone - but I always want to know---"what MacGyver would do?"

I realize that this sort of device would be illegal in normal use- but if a scout needd to be located, if he sent out a transmission, it could be triangualted rather quickly. Have I been watching too much Star Trek- or what???

 

Pappy

[OldGreyEagle 5]

You mean like a personal locator beacon? A GPS locator that is home made to locate scouts/people?

 

I am not sure about Star Trek but perhaps Orwellian would be more accurate

[Hiromi 9]

Old Grey Eagle-

 

I won't go down that rabbit hole of Ron Paul and the LIbertarians fighting the Federal Bogey man.

 

ALL I was communicating to Mark was if there is a way to construct a home made buzzer that would send off a signal that would be picked up by radios. This might be a neat thing to know if you are trapped in a place- have access to electricity- and want to let the world know you where you are.

 

Besides- Orwell might approve of such a device- because using one would initially get "Big Brother" pretty peeved - until it was reaslized it was just a resourceful BOy Scout tapping code on a home made buzzer gettin the attention to the world to send help.

 

Pappy

[MarkS 11]

OGE, when it comes to ham radio, you're talking about Automatic Position Reporting System (APRS).

 

Pappy, there are tons of ham radio web sites devoted to operating morse code on the net.

[Gold Winger 9]

"By the way- another scoutmaster told me that John McCain didn't actually ude Morse ode in the VC prison. Do you know what code he used to communicate to his prison mates if not Morse?"

 

It was an old code developed in the Civil War. You draw a 5x5 matrix and fill it with the letters. There's one that gets omitted but I don't recall which one. Apparently, the fellow who remembered the code didn't remember it clearly and they did it "backwards" but it still worked.

 

1 2 3 4 5

1 A B C D E

 

2 F G H I J

 

3 K L M N O

 

4 P R S T U

 

5 V w X Y Z

 

A would be 1.1 B would be 2.1 So apple would be 1.1 4.1 4.1 3.2 1.5

 

Back in 76 or 77 I met a fellow, Col. Ben Pollard, who spent a few years in Hanoi http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/p/p088.htm He told us about the code, log tables, trig tables and designed a jet plane using toilet paper for notes and tapping on the walls.

 

When asked his opinion of Jane Fonda, he used the word that Dan Akroyd used with another Jane which is now banned on this forum.

[Hiromi 9]

From THe Archives: Epistles of Captain Pappy

 

 

 

Spiney Norman

 

 

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Thursday, 1/24/2008: 10:08:33 PM

 

Well PAPPY I have to hand it to you. This board has certainly lit up since your arrival. I do have one question for you though. Can you tell me exactly where it states that the BSA is a Christian organization as you stated above.

 

"You should go with him to the first few meetings and see for yourself citizens in action trying to turn green young bucks into creatures worthy of the mantle of U.S citizen, of Christian soldier, of Mensch, of a Real Man."

 

I don't doubt your enthusiasm, only your methods. I would agree with other posters on the board and not call what you do scouting. In my past role as a Cubmaster and WDL we had Christians, Buddhists and Muslim all in the same Pack. We all thought it was a great opportunity to celebrate and learn about other ways to worship the same maker.

 

I think your myopic view of what scouting should be looks to the past not for inspiration but as something that should be emulated today. This is not the 20th century. If this country is to survive and thrive we must find a way to once again change our society to reflect the makeup of it's populace. Forcing everyone into an outdated imitation of the Eisenhower years just ain't gonna do it. You are doing a disservice to the boys in your charge and not preparing them properly for the challenges that they will face in their lifetimes.

admin | IP: Logged

spin-off new thread

 

 

 

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Thursday, 1/24/2008: 11:18:14 PM

 

Mr. Spidey Norman - You are certainly entitled to that opinion .

 

The public schools have legions of certified teachers trained in the terms and ideologies your post espouse. (I am one of them- I know.)

 

And on many levels, I would agree with you that tolerance, understanding, love of neighbor, are all admirable qualities that will of course be what the twenty-first century- like the twentieth century needs.

 

But please explain to me how is a boy becoming a Mensch, A Christian Soldier, or worthy of the mantle of U.S. citizenship, in any way shape or form myopic or a deviation from those qualities needed for this century? I know you didn't mean to imply that you are an un-American Christian-hating anti-Semite?

 

I think it would be quite easy to argue the point that the Scout Law is an extrapolation and derivation of the Golden Rule and the Sermon on the Mount. I think the Jewish term Mencsh is in no way any diminishment from the type of Man we need for the 21'st century and that the Mensch epitomizes most if not all of the scout ideal.

 

 

Mensch:: a person, esp. a man, regarded as being honorable, decent, and responsible and having strength of character

 

Etymology: Yiddish < Ger, person < OHG mannisco, orig., human < mann, man + isc-, -ish

 

The Boy Scouts is a progressive movement born out of the very sentiments I articulated in my letter. BP and the rest of them were concerned that an existential crisis of civilization was at hand if something wasn't done about the growing number of neglected boys. It was a progressive movement to be sure- but it was based on the conservative values of the Scout Law. In a great and interesting sense Scouting embraces the two best parts of Conservatism and Liberalism (progressivism). It is a community effort of charity, organization, and collective values, coming to preserve and nurture a vital resource for the continuance of Civilization (Not an Eisenhower era version of Civilization- but a Civilization based on brotherly love and understanding as articulated in the Scout Law.)

 

We CONSERVE the Scout law by perpetuating most LIBERALLY the scouting movement in all shapes and forms.

 

But surely- civilization is not maintained without discipline- self-control - self- sacrifice- and all the qualities in the scout law. Selflessness is the ghost in the machine of Scouting and most world religions. But the liberal giving of onself to the service of another comes from the authority of a law whose author ultimately is a priori to BP or America. This is why God is in the scouts. Authority must be derived from its ultimate Head Waters - the Divine Author. This is implicit in our founding document of independence from British tyranny, and it informs American Citizenship. This is not some Eisenhower era phantasm!

 

Don't twist my words to satisfy your desire to paint me as some sort of fascist.

 

I went to College and went on to get certified to teach. I suffered six years of professors lecturing to us on how America, Evangelical Christians, The Catholic Church, Pro-lifers, Republicans, the Armed Forces, THe Boy Scouts, and Western Civilization in general were basically narrow destructive agencies that needed to be overcome by some twisted version of "Progressive Liberalism".

 

The Scout Law itself has become a provocative thing in our time.

 

Our timeless values are indeed timeless because they betray time and place. They are universal and they are difficult. They come from on high. This is why the world has made it a pejorative to call some one a "Boy Scout". It is like calling some one a do gooder.. Just watch the movies - it comes up a lot.

 

Do you think I was wrong to suggest that youth, left to their own devises, will seek out depravity? Look around.

 

I think we need to have the kind of parents that insist that their boys join and stick with scouting and not make it as democratic as some would suggest it should be. Democracy is for adults. Children do not know what is best for them.

 

Have you seen the results of the other progressive movements in our culture?

 

Permissiveness. Vulgarity. Lewdness. Disrespect. Dishonor. Unfriendliness.

 

The world of youth culture, friend, is the antonym of the Scout Law.

 

The Scouting founders new the provocative and revolutionary nature of the scout law. It is our founding principle for a reason. It keeps us vigilant, and reminds us of what the mark should be and ultimately how successful we are in our efforts.

 

If feel-good progressive politically correct methods and ideologies have the result of creating spoiled children, self-loathing rudderless parents, and a popular culture where the very idea of SIN is perceived as a rude and judgmental anachronism, - then call me a myopic anachronism pal.

 

But I think I'm not the one that needs the corrective lens.

 

I'll leave the judgment call of what a disservice I am doing to my charges to their parents.

 

Pappy

 

 

From Lisabob

 

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Friday, 1/25/2008: 9:47:30 AM quality

 

It is easy to find rhetoric, tougher to find answers in your posts there Pappy. So if I may, let me ask you a couple of really basic questions.

 

1) Do you view the Boy Scouts of America as a Christian organization? If so, what is your view on people of non-Christian backgrounds belonging to the BSA?

 

2) Do you attend Round Tables and other district and council functions where scout leaders from a variety of units gather together to share insights, ideas, and tips?

 

3) Were you a cub or boy scout as a child? If so, what was your pack or troop like, in comparison to what you have going with your "Costa Corps?"

Lisa Bob

 

 

From Pappy

 

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Friday, 1/25/2008: 10:35:56 AM

 

Well I found my letters and reply pretty self-explanatory, I will gladly answer your questions.

 

1Lisa asks:) Do you view the Boy Scouts of America as a Christian organization? If so, what is your view on people of non-Christian backgrounds belonging to the BSA?

 

Pappy responds:

I do not think that BSA is a Christian organization. There is no Creed. There is no statement of belief in a Trinitarian God-head or any mention of Jesus Christ being the Son of God and our road to salvation. So no- it is not Christian. No where is there any tenant in scouting of specific rite- whether Baptism, religious formation, etc. Its the Scout law, as I stated, that seems to me be an extrapolation or at least co commensurate with the Golden Rule and the Sermon on the Mount. I also said the Jewish concept of the virtuous man- the Mensch- is very much in keeping with the Scout Law and Oath. Belief in a Maker is paramount because of what I described as the issue with ultimate authority. Would you, Lisa, say that Thomas Jefferson believed that he was forging a founding Christian Document? No I don't think you would (To answer the question for you- you can correct me if I'm wrong). The Declarations genius is in it pointing to the authority in which our rights are derived. Ultimate authority comes from the creator. Without a creator- human begin to believe that they are the creator- and that authority is derived from the person with the biggest gang of thugs. This is why the founders of the Communist and National Socialist regimes were against the idea of God.

 

Lisa Asks Pappy 2) Do you attend Round Tables and other district and council functions where scout leaders from a variety of units gather together to share insights, ideas, and tips?

 

Pappy Relies to Lisa: I participate in inner District events. Just got back from freezing my compass off at our Klondike. The Commish is a friend of mine who is actually taping my drywall as I write this. So I am certainly in league with the devil. (Just kidding) I have a very close relationship with another troop in town. They know what we do is different- but we have fun doing events together. They even built a potato cannon too. They are a strictly by the numbers outfit- very well run - and I learn a lot from them. There is another unit in a neighboring town that really has their act together- and I admire them greatly. I am not an island.

 

3) Were you a cub or boy scout as a child? If so, what was your pack or troop like, in comparison to what you have going with your unit?

 

"Den Five- DEn Five- WHere ALive- THat Ain't No Jive DENNNNNN FIVE!" Never forget that- the Jive part was my idea.

I was Cub scout. My Den mother lived down the block. We did lots of Craft Projects. At one particular Pack meeting the Assistant Scout master slapped me so hard in the back of the head that I cried. Why did he do this? Because I was whispering to a fellow scout the Nat King Cole song Mona Lisa when a presenter was showing us a painting of the Mona Lisa. Funny how those negative memories crystallize in your brain. I went to one Webelos meeting- it was terrifically unfriendly- and all they seemed to do was play baseball. SO that was it for me.

 

I didn't even know about Boy Scouts until one day I saw something I would never forget. I got a call from my neighbors, the Pisanos (THat is really their names), and they said to hurry over- the Boy Scouts were here cleaning out their Creek. I rode my bike over and couldn't believe my eyes. Uniformed scouts in big boots had built a temporary damn and were cleaning out all the junk out of our favorite play spot. We were fascinated to see the huge catfish that was flopping in the muck. The pieces of tombstone fragments from Peter Truces Monument Company on the other side of the Creek (This was in Hillside Illinois) where really cool. I thought- wow- Boy Scouts are cool.

 

But that is it for my experience. When I came back to it as my son's Tiger leader I was completely taken aback by both the official BSA video training and the program and manual. I found myself getting angry and nauseous just opening the pages. It seemed so saccharine and mediocre. The Pack meetings were literally a dangerous fiasco of the Pack Master's children running amuck. We parents looked on in amazement as the boys talked out of turn, showed disrespect for the adults and each other, and participated in these ridiculous phony Indian type rituals and bizarre scout games that left parents stunned. Ill never forget the scout play about how each boy would walk up on stage and say "oh look a bug"- and then pull a wing or a leg off the imaginary bug" and then walk off stage - , until the last scout came up and said- Yum, a raison! And ate it. Yikes...

 

After the first meeting four families decided not to sign their children up for scouting. I didn't have any answers then - I only knew that what was trying to pass for scouting was an abomination. The rest I already wrote about in other posts.

 

IT has been nearly six years since then, and I have come around to see a lot more of the wisdom in the BSA methods. But cub scouting I still find intolerably boring. We have no Den mothers. The moms are a big help- but all agree that the men should run the boys.

 

I hope this helps you in your prognosis of me.

 

Pappy

 

 

 

From evmori

 

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Friday, 1/25/2008: 10:37:00 AM

Sounds like a manifesto to me!

 

 

 

 

FROM RangerT

 

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Friday, 1/25/2008: 12:34:53 PM

 

Pappy

All I read in your posts is constant criticism of the country, scouts, and in general anyone who disagrees with your own myopic view of the world. While there have always been problems in our society it is not a lost cause as you seem to restate in your posts. This is on e of the few countries in the world where a very diverse group of people from a variety of races, creeds and ethnic origins worked together to build this great country. Yes there have been and will continue to be problems but I would not want to live anywhere else. What you preach however are false doctrines and you know what the Bible says happens to false prophets.

 

So Pappy all I have to say to you is get over it already, for every kid that has gone down to the lure of crime, greed, etc. I can show you 10 who have really made something of themselves. So you see your argument has no foundation to stand on and like sand will just blow away when a big wind hits it. I really feel sorry for you and the bitterness you constantly express.

 

RangerT

 

 

 

FROM PAPPY

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Friday, 1/25/2008: 1:00:22 PM

 

 

Ranger T,

 

What were the false doctrines I presented. You know, I have been called a lot of things on this sight- And the most vehement things always have a religious ring to them. Now I am called by you the thing that Jesus Himself said was the ultimate anathema - A false Profit! I don't know whether I should feel insulted or complimented to provoke such venom.

 

I am not a negative person. Maybe I take myself way too seriously- and suffer from dramatic license in my writing style - but I am completely sincere in the thoughts I express here and the actions I take with my boys.

 

I DO think our civilization is NOT guaranteed. Weimar Germany in the 1930s was considered by every standard of the time to be the most cultured civilized place on the planet. Nine years later it was the closest thing to hell we have ever seen. People cried- "How can this happen- how can civilized people resort to such barbarism."

 

I think I know why. The foundation principles of the society was usurped and replaced with a Racist will to power. The normal watchdogs of civilization had become decadent and deserted their posts. The intelligentsia of Europe became enamored with Communism and anarchism and was completely loath to Christianity and Judaism and even of a Christian America they thought was backwards and Mongrel. What started as a intellectual fashion statement became a popular movement and then a machine of death. It can happen again. That is no false prophecy- it is a simple fact.

 

You are right to say that our diversity is a great part of our strength. I place great hope in the human race and a diverse America and in a diverse Boy Scouts. And I see the good and the bad in both our boys, our culture, and our race.

 

But what have I said that you find to be a lie? What are the false doctrines? Where are the inaccuracies? And if you are so sick of reading my comments, I suggest refraining from reading any more of them.

 

It is amazing how often I am accused of my Myopia and intolerance on this sight. I am for the Scout Law. It is a standard of conduct. We serve the Scout Law first and foremost as Boy Scout volunteers.

 

I am for the Boy Scout movement - and I have never argued on this site that BSA should follow my lead - I only asked if others had frustrations and ideas to make BSA better and shared some of the things I thought and have tried.

 

You guys have not gotten me angry yet. I am having a ball, and I really have enjoyed reading the many threads from this site. Have a little faith that even I can learn.

 

 

Pappy

 

 

FROM PAPPY

RE: The Epistles of Captain Pappy: Letters to news papers in defense of scouting

Posted: Saturday, 1/26/2008: 11:24:41 PM

 

TO Captainron 14,

 

To refer to me as a "Brown Shirt", as you did in the Scouter Announcement thread

is the epitome of offensive and maligning name calling.

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=179161&p=2a

 

 

I admit, in the heat of the moment- I foolishly have allowed myself to quip on these forums that Eamann is a "dope" for indicting my honor - and I was quick to apologize for it- and I do again here.

 

I am truly sorry Eamann- you are obviously not a dope- or like Frank Burns on MASH, and I have gone back after making those slights and read many of your writings and I am especially the more sorry after realizing that you obviously care very deeply for scouting and know a great deal more about it than I do. It was un-scout-like of me to write such things, and I regret making them.

 

I apologized to FireCat for an insensitive remark I made about how maybe we should have a physical fitness requirement for Scout leaders.

I was and am sorry. Obviously there are many truly great resources that we shouldn't overlook for a physical handicap. My real intent was to impart that we adult leaders are looked to by our charges as examples of the scout law and scout way. And if we are to tell them to exercise and be physically strong- we should make the same effort ourselves.

 

But when in the past week, Captainron 14, have I ever made a remark or presented an anecdote or proposed any idea that would give someone the impression that I am a NAZI? A Brown shirt is worse than a NAZI- The worst kind- they were the cynical thuggish brutes who used any means to get Hitler to power. The worst form of savage imaginable I believe.

 

I surely will forgive you for your hyperbolous remark - as I'm sure you wouldn't have made it if you really knew me. But even if you really felt after sober reflection that I was such a hideous thing as the epithet that you chose, why print it on a public nationwide scouting forum, especially when you know that I intentionally revealed my identity to demonstrate that I was not a plant after dozens of those accusations?

 

There is a real world out there and we are all mostly just ordinary citizens who share one thing in common; we work with boys in the effort to impart to them the scout law. Calling those who have different ideas than you do about Boy Scouting names like "Whack Jobs", "plants", and other disparaging names doesn't help a forum like this.

 

I in fact go out of my way to teach my scouts those Christian virtues that many of my Christian friends find difficult- like turning the other cheek, and seeking to find your cross in humble submission to God's providence. Ideas completely loathed by the sadistic minions of Nazism. You see Captainron 14- I believe that a Christian soldier is a ready and willing martyr for peace. In fact, ask any one of my scouts why we engage in any of our pretend martial combats- from the potato cannons to the pugil sticks to firing salvos of archery arrows at Styrofoam orks and they will tell you the same thing they learned from me- it is "to be prepared for "spiritual battle"". They will tell you that they learn in scouting that the darkest forces we must face are those that rise up inside of us. The devil will tempt us to abuse those who harm us, He will tempt us into revenge and all manners of real violence- whether with the tongue, the thought, or the fist. My scouts learn that this is not manly behavior, but wickedness. I tell them if they want to meet the devil go ahead and kick a first grader.

 

(I loath the fact that my boys will eventually have to face the Junior High gauntlet of boys calling them foul names because of the Boy Scout uniform. But I shouldn't really. What a great opportunity for a kid to make a stand for something bigger than himself. I see the Boy Scouting movement as a force for good in youth culture- not just another neat club like lots of neat clubs.)

 

At the end of each of our meetings the senior scout in charge orders the scouts to fall in and dress right dress and come to attention. We salute the flag- play taps on the scout bugle, and say the scout oath and the pledge of allegiance. Then we get on one knee and a scout is chosen from a sea of hands being raised to pick out the prayers of the day. The scouts favorite prayers are the Glory be- the Lord's Prayer - the table blessing in Latin- and the number one favorite is the Prayer to Saint Michael. (Since we are a Roman Catholic unit- but have Lutherans, Baptists, and Apostolic Christians - I took the Hail Mary and Hail Holy Queen off the list to keep things ecumenical).

 

This is my scout's favorite prayer-

 

"Saint Michael the Archangel, Defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. And do thou- oh prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into Hell Satan, and all the evil spirits who wonder through the world seeking the ruin of souls. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen"

 

How can a Scout-His Scoutmaster, or their Troop- ever be called Hitler Youth or Brown shirts when they conscientiously attempt to incorporate Christian virtues and martial discipline with scout law and uniform conduct?

 

You do realize that the Leftist radical's favorite epitaph for all Boy Scouts- not just the zealous uniform wearing gung ho variety like myself, is "Hitler Youth, Nazi, and Brown Shirts."

 

You bring that kind of vitriol into a Scouter forum and then lecture me and the others about "ant--scouting elements" and about my Dereliction to my duty to uphold BSA standards? I hope you can at least see that your ends do not justify your means.

 

 

Pappy

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

"Back in 76 or 77 I met a fellow, Col. Ben Pollard, who spent a few years in Hanoi http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/p/p088.htm'>http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/p/p088.htm He told us about the code, log tables, trig tables and designed a jet plane using toilet paper for notes and tapping on the walls. "

 

Accidentally deleted a phew werds in this sentence. It should read

 

Back in 76 or 77 I met a fellow, Col. Ben Pollard, who spent a few years in Hanoi http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/p/p088.htm He told us about the tap code and how they recreated log tables, trig tables and designed a jet plane using toilet paper for notes and tapping on the walls to pass messages.

 

We were engineering students, we knew about log tables and such but I doubt if any of us could have sat down and created them. That says something about the determination of those guys.

 

BTW, I found a refernce to the tap code. Apparently, "K" was the ommitted letter, not "Q" as I had indicated before.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/honor/sfeature/sf_tap.html

[Hiromi 9]

(This is letter recently sent to local papers. THis is a very troubling issue for our District. Cub Scouting enrollment is plummeting, and this will affect BS recruitment efforts -as the Webelos population contnues to decrease.)

 

Dear Editor,

 

Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts is a dying institution in our neck of the woods, and it certainly hasnt been helped out by a school board who is so loath to scouting as to lump them in with Jehovah Witnesses and Evangelical Christians as another irritating and unwelcome proselytizing group.

 

 

 

The cynical and mean spirited antics of the CUSD 205 to keep Cub Scout officials off the school grounds to promote scouting, (as they have done for nearly seventy years), has had a deleterious effect on recruitment and retention of scouts. Most notable are Steele and Gale schools, which have dwindled from vibrant packs of nearly a combined total of 150 boys down to a single consolidated unit of 15 Cub Scouts.

 

 

 

Boy scouting is not a religion or a church. Cub Scouting teaches boys to respect the flag, learn about citizenship, the natural environment, stewardship and conservation, respect for adults and each other, U.S. History, and an appreciation for hygiene, physical fitness, courteous behavior, and determination to succeed at whatever you endeavor at. Scouts march in parades and wear the U.S. Flag proudly on their uniform. They have a deep respect for Native Americans, they are taught to practice leave no trace camping, and are involved in many Arbor Day plantings and clean-up efforts.

 

 

 

How on earth could this in any way hinder the mission of Public Schools? It is a shame on the leadership of CUSD 205 that they do not allow the District Adult Scouters to promote scouting in the buildings, especially when these promotional demonstrations can be educational, motivational, and encourage the boys to participate in an organization that gets them off the streets, off the couch, and often times off drugs and other paths into the gutter.

 

 

 

It is purely gutless and creepy to use the maneuverings of politically active lawyers to rationalize policies to keep the Cub Scouts down and out in our public schools when schools around Galesburg are allowing Cub Scouting.

 

 

 

But maybe there is something else going on here that no one wants to talk about. Maybe the seven hundred pound gorilla in the room is the fact that the Public Schools are loaded with people who see scouting as part of a social evil that they can help eradicate. The public schools have now all but kept any mention of God or religion out of earshot from our children 7 hours or more a day. Civics and patriotism has all but been eradicated from the schools. U.S. History has been pushed to the side for Social Studies which is an ad hoc made-up discipline written by diversity committees insuring all so-called oppressed groups and left-leaning causes get equal time for our kids ears. Read any Houghton Mifflin Social Studies books if you need to be reminded of the bilge our kids are being fed.

 

 

 

Public education has become a mockery to the idea of the educated person (which was once thought to be someone who could read a book and understand its allusions to history, religion, and the great ideas that have been promulgated over the last three millennia. An educated person would know the foundations of their civilization, their Religion, and possess the tools of Logic, Rhetoric, Grammar, to both comprehend and articulate feelings and ideas. An educated person would know how to judge the affairs of men through the lens of history because they would have been grounded in the study of great men throughout time). None of this would sound too familiar to a public educator.

 

 

 

And now to add insult to the injury our schools are doing to our kids, they are now insinuating that there is not room at the school for the promotion of scouting. It is bad enough that schools are set up to be the worst possible environment for boys, (being forced to sit on their bottoms most of the good part of the day having to be told to do clerical work by an over-burdened social worker). But now they are helping to cut out one of the few organizations that can hope to bring public school boys experiences in nature where they can lead other boys, use a scout axe to cut and form trees into tools and shelters, go fishing and learn to survive in hostile environments and to deal with injury, and find out that the world is a lot more than school and sports and jobs and video games and perhaps the unhappy home they currently live in. .

 

 

 

Thank Goodness for the faithful communities like Bethel Baptist Church who have been forming new Cub and Boy Scouting units and taking in the wayward boys who can no longer have a vibrant cub scout culture in their own schools.

 

 

 

Pappy

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

From a legal standpoint, if a public school allows the BSA to recruit students, they've opened the floodgates to Jehovah's Witnesses and evangelical Christians (and recruiting by atheist groups, for that matter). The BSA has theological requirements and promotes a theological view just like these other groups.

[Hiromi 9]

That is ridiculous and you know it. I could easily say that consciously ignoring God in all discussions of science and history is equally theological an outlook. Probably more so.

 

Pappy

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

No, it ISN'T a ridiculous outlook. The BSA has successfully defined itself as a religious organization, they clearly have religious membership requirements, and they promote the theological view that a god exists and that people have a duty to that god.

 

If a public school allows an organization that excludes atheists, on what grounds can they exclude an organization that excludes theists?