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Trevorum

Do you agree 100% with BSA policies?

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Brent, I'm not sure why you ask. What connection in reasoning are you making with your questions?

Without going into my personal beliefs I think I can answer the second question simply with a 'no', although there are much, much longer ways to answer it.

For an answer to the first question, and on the assumption that BSA would be satisfied with any of them, please list all the alternatives that people, someplace, believe.

 

One more question for anyone reading this, does anyone think I am an authority on this, whose opinion should be accepted simply on the basis of that authority?

(Hint, the answer is 'no'.) But you already knew that, didn't you? ;)

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pack,

You asked/stated that Lucifer (whatever name you wish to apply) doesn't really exist. Based on that statement, I was curious if you felt God was a myth. Pretty simple question, I think. I'm not asking this in the context of the DRP, just in the context of your earlier statement about Lucifer/Satan being a myth.

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Brent, I'm sorry, I'm still trying to understand your reasoning. Please explain in a little more detail.

It is not simple...unless you think God is simple. 'God' means many things and is manifested in many ways for different people and faiths. Your first question simply can't be answered in a meaningful way without more detail - hence my request for the list and your reasoning.

(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

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pack,

I wasn't asking how different faiths felt about whether God was a myth or not, or how the word "God" is interpreted by different people and faiths. I was asking you about whether or not you believe God is a myth. You stated you believed that Lucifer/Satan was a myth, equivalent to a monster in a kid's closet, and you implied that everyone else either does think that, or should think that. I really didn't think it was that difficult of a question. A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

"Heh, heh, everyone knows I hope, that Lucifer (whatever name you wish to apply) doesn't really exist? He's (it's) just a myth. Kind of like the monster in the closet that scares the little kids. Just a fictitious being that we invented to personify evil or something. Right?"

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"Is God just a myth?"

Brent, I have tried to get you to clarify by asking you nicely. Twice. You refused (a scout is helpful, courteous). Therefore to the above idiotic question I answer, 'no'. And you have no idea what the answer really means...although you might think you do.

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Let's not allow the Ed and Merlyn show to become the Brent and Packsaddle show! ;)

 

What happended to that little tiff anyway?

 

 

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I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't know how to clarify "Is God a myth?"

 

Being a Christian, I believe in God and I believe in Jesus. I believe the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible tells us that Satan exists, so I believe it. Is Satan Lucifer? I don't know, and I don't know if that is important. I do believe Satan is real and not "just a fictitious being that we invented to personify evil or something." If one believes God exists, I don't see why it would be that hard to believe that Satan exists.

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So is belief in God also by association belief in Satan? Can the two be separated? Could one then deduce that if inseparable that the DRP could easily be re-worded to require a belief in Satan to suffice BSA membership requirements? If such a declaration were made, would one then deduce that the BSA condons devil worshiping?

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

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So, belief equals worship?? Inseparable means equal?? Sounds like someone is on a Rocky Mountain High, and not the kind John Denver was singing about.

 

Yes, things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.

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So is belief in God also by association belief in Satan?

 

Not necessarily, Gern. God/Satan as discussed is a Judeo-christian concept. Not all of the worlds religious share this belief system.

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Thank you erickelly65.

 

Those hooked Judeo-Christian religions have to accept that Scouting isn't.

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One needs to be careful when throwing the Judeo/Christian label around. The concept of Heaven, Hell and Satan is one of the great differences between the faiths.

 

According to Rabbi Michael Katz ...

http://www.aldenfilms.com/jrconcepts.html

 

Satan is the fallen angel of gnostic origins and the universal symbol of evil as defined by Christianity and Islam. He is described in literature (Paradise Lost, et al.) and in theology as an adversary of God. This notion of Satan as a fiend or a Prince of Darkness is inimical to the Jewish concept of God, which regards Satan as a servant of God.

 

First mentioned in the Book of Job, Satan asks God to take away the earthly advantages of Job, in an effort to prove that Job might well not be so wonderful if all his benefits were removed. God permits Satan to do this, which is an example showing that Satan is always acting on Gods behalf, whether as the evil inclination or as the prosecuting angel in the world to come. Satans task is a thankless job where failure in effect denotes success. God creates Good and Evil in order to give man free will; Satan, rather than being an instigator creating evil, is Gods vehicle to test mans free will of good versus evil. In this lecture, Rabbi Michael Katz explains who Satan really is and is not.

 

 

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Exactly, Gern. There are plenty of views in which the Jewish God is NOT in fact the same one as claimed by Christians. And that, as they say, is just the tip of the 'distinctions'. And one reason for my earlier request for clarifications. I couldn't begin to make any sweeping statement for all the ideas about 'God'...only my own - and here, in these forums, I won't.

 

Also thanks for noting the logical problems of linkage or complementarity that arises from a simpleminded literal/absolute interpretation of the Bible in which doubt for any part reflects similarly on the other parts. A truly omnipotent God would neither need Satan as a 'foil' nor would the existence of such a deity require or depend on some balancing existence of a personification of evil.

 

As I understand, 'hell' is not part of Jewish religion. This would, to me, imply a certain diminished standing for Satan as well, heh, heh, maybe into Gonzo1's closet.;)

And correct me if I'm wrong here, Dan Kroh, but pagans also do not recognize Lucifer (whatever).

Of course, as noted by Erickelly65, the very concept of any particular 'God' is highly variable, even if viewed outside linkage to or dependence on corresponding existence of 'Lucifer' or personification of evil.

 

Anyway, ....so I have determined in my mind that Satan/Belial/ Devil/Lucifer/God of this world/Beelzebub/Asmodai/Old Nick/Iblis/Old Hob/Abaddon/Old Scratch/Apollyon, yes, as well as Urian or Mephisto (which, BTW, is a great name for any black dog ;)) are simply myths of human invention, common to many cultures and religions.

So what!

I have long maintained that myths do have value (if you want to know what that is read Edith Hamilton) and they're fun as well. But they ARE myth. And yes, Ed, you can believe all of it if you want to, I have no problem with that. I just don't see why anyone should get bent out of shape if I don't. BSA included.

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