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fgoodwin

Community Day backs away from BSA over its gay policy

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I don't know if it is a choice or not but no one puts a gun to their head and says, "do these strange things." Okay, most of the time there's no gun involved.

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I don't believe anybody's beliefs or minds change as a result of these discussions but I will just take this opportunity to share my personal experience. I've always been a live and let live type, and until the last dozen years or so I guess I believed that homosexuals or bisexuals "chose". I no longer believe that - especially not after living in SF for a decade and getting to know several of "them" quite well. There's a great deal of confusion around that adolescent time, but, when asked, a lot of their confusion was because they knew they weren't supposed to "feel that way." It wasn't because they were making a "choice". OK, so that belief/opinion had to be revised.

 

But the Bible - supposedly even the New Testament - said it was wrong. Well, I was willing to just say that it's up to our Creator to figure that one out and leave it at that. Then I started seminary and realized that our translations may be the root of that problem. Looked at closely, the Bible seems to be talking about rape, of any sort, not homosexuality as wrong. Even when Paul mentions it in Romans, he goes on to use it as an example of what's wrong about being judgmental.

 

So the short version is, it's still up to our Creator to deal with it. Biologically, homosexuality is obviously a dead end, but some of us seem to be wired that way. But it's not up to me to judge, lest I be judged. The BSA is obviously a private organization and I do get more and more uncomfortable with its stance on this issue. However, it's up to me to decide whether or not to associate with it. It's also up to me to decide how Don Quixote I want to be about changing it, since I think it's about the best thing going in terms of teaching young people values. Even the Catholic Church reformed itself after Martin Luther came along, although it took a while. So reform happens. We live in an imperfect world.

 

Just some rambling thoughts. Wish I was camping.

Vicki

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GW - please feel free to elaborate, otherwise, on its face, your comment seems facile.

 

Vicki (who will not be sucked into a fruitless debate:

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Vicki, I agree with your observation regarding changing minds and even if you got the name wrong I enjoyed all the characters portrayed by Gilda Radner.

Also agree with Calico regarding prejudice, although I'm not sure I think of arrogance in terms of morality.

 

However Vicki, I would like to observe that homosexuality is not necessarily a biological "dead end" if you think in terms of inclusive fitness (for gay men) or if you consider the fact that gay women are nevertheless quite capable of pregnancy, just not necessarily in the 'regular old way'. ;)

The mere fact that gay couples provide loving nurturing homes for adopted or their own children is a huge contribution in itself.

"For neither do men live nor die in vain."

One of my favorites.

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"The greatest immorality of all is judging other people to be inferior to oneself in any way, shape or form."

 

But don't we all believe in judging people--surely, in determining whether someone would be allowed to be a leader and role model for your children, you would judge against them if they were drug addicts, pedophiles, convicted kidnapers, maybe even reckless drivers. The problem here is that there is less of a consensus on what the correct judgment is.

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Gern, you miss the point completely. EVERY time a person voluntarily engages in sex, they are CHOOSING whether it's heterosexual or homosexual sex.

 

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So Ed, only homosexuals choose. Heteros don't?

 

Did I say that? No. Just said I don't remember. There was another poster who is long gone who always tried to spin what ya posted like this! G;ad that poster never cam back.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

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Yep, Pack, I did mean Emily L - OGE's post referenced that too (tactfully), but, hey, continuing to point out a person's error is pretty much par for this particular course, eh? Hopefully we don't do that to our scouts.

 

My reference was strictly regarding the biology of M-M and F-F, if you will, not larger sociological or scientifically provided possibilities such as adoption, artificial insemination, in-vitro, etc. Intended only as an observation without judgement.

 

Vicki

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I'm married. I don't choose to have sex. And when the opportunity does present itself, albeit rarely ;), I don't have the option of choosing hetero or homo.

Kinda like being right handed. Everytime I pick up a pen to make a note, I don't choose to use my right hand over my left. I just naturally pick it up in my right hand. Sure, I've been left curious and tried to write with my left hand, but that doesn't make me left handed does it?

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Gern wrote, "I'm married. I don't choose to have sex."

Holy smokes! I sure do! ;)

 

What I don't do is to choose to be attracted to females, the attraction is something I can't change. I am attracted to females (maybe not ALL of them, though, and I'm not talking about Ann Coulter either, she's definitely HOT!) and the only reason I keep coming up with is biological - I just can't help myself. Given our evolutionary history and the forces that have shaped our instincts, this intinct makes a lot of sense. It isn't a choice.

H'mmm, however, there WAS that time in New Orleans though, I didn't know she (whatever) was a guy at first. What a figure! But for some reason, after I found out, I just couldn't feel the same attraction anymore. Oh well, it's just the way I am I suppose.

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