Trevorum 24 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Merlyn, you are correct. Just like not every UU is a theist or even a deist. Eric, then I think we must be in agreement. I would have no problem allowing any and all atheists be scouts. If we did, I see absolutely no change to any part of the program. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Yup the GSUSA caved to the PC crowd and redefined their oath. The BSA didn't & now they are under attacks for being a discriminatory group that refuses to change. Which organization would you rather belong to - one that caves into pressure or one that stands it's ground for what it feels is for the greater good? Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Well Ed, to use a biological analogy, species that do not adapt to changes in their environment become extinct. Perhaps trilobites thought they were standing firm, too. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 ahem....populations adapt AND evolve. Link to post Share on other sites
erickelly65 10 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The tough thing is deciding when ones view is standing ones ground on principle or it's just pig-headedness. From my own presonal experiences I feel scouting today has been much more swayed by the far right then it seemed to be when I was a Scout. As a Scouter and Parent, I worry about raising the youth of today. I think Scouting is a hugely powerful program and can have profound influences on the character and success of young people (it certainly was lifechanging for me as a child). Today, more than ever, it seems our youth are starved for positive role models (especially boys) and programs that will empower them. I think it better to make some adaptions and accomodations for others of differing view and therefore expand our reach to more youth then fail those youth and potentially doom them. For me its never been much of a stretch to consider accepting someone of a different faith versus someone of "no faith" (For me my faith is correct and the others therefore incorrect (so does it really matter if you worse no God versus the wrong one?) I just dont want Scouting to change so much it prevents me from giving the faith based scouting experience I want for my son and I dont feel I have to do that in a way that keeps others out. Do I know mechanically or programitically that would work?...nope but do I think it can be worked out?...yes. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 but you'll allow thinking trilobites? Link to post Share on other sites
erickelly65 10 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 trilobites? thats just crazy talk. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 sorry, eric - we cross-posted ... that quip was for pack Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Come on Ed, get with the program! Those 10 Commandments aren't something we should stand firm on - we should adapt and evolve! That is what Bill Clinton was doing with Lewinsky - Bill's marriage had adapted and evolved - his wedding vows were just relics of the past. I'm sure Trev and pack have a similar view of their marriage vows, right guys? Adapt and evolve! I'm sure their wives will agree with their views. Let's not forget those early adaptors and evolvers - the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah. We know how successful they turned out to be! Link to post Share on other sites
Gold Winger 9 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 "so does it really matter if you worse no God versus the wrong one?" Its been my experience with atheists is that most spend much of their time trying to convince you that you're stupid for believing. They're just as irritating as the Christians that open every conversation with "Have you accepted Christ?" Link to post Share on other sites
erickelly65 10 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The 10 Commandments are unique to the Judeo-Christian tradition. Scouting is not a "Christian" organization but open to many faiths. To follow your line of thought, the Scouts shouldnt have other faiths involved either. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Brent, I can't speak for packsaddle of course, but you're actually quite right. My beautiful bride and I DID in fact adapt out wedding vows from the thoughts of several cultures. We both think our ceremony was much more meaningful (you may read "evolved" here) than many of the traditional ceremonies we have witnessed. As do organizations (and species), marriage vows contain a number of different elements. Some of them may be outdated and should be discarded (her: "Obey??? Hah!"). Link to post Share on other sites
tjhammer 10 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I'm gay. I've been in Scouting for 28 years, and involved in leadership positions locally to internationally. The question for me is: what principles are you standing by? Biblical inerrancy? That calls for explanation for any number of other questions that so many evangelicals seem indifferent toward. What are these principles whereof you speak? And why are they relevant to Scouting? Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 But Trev, you don't believe in that antiquated idea that a marriage is just between one man and one woman, do you? Surely, you have evolved beyond that! But wait - what about HPV, Herpes, and AIDS? Maybe standing firm and believing in some principals is the right thing to do! Man, this whole life thing sure is confusing. If Darwin was correct, why are there still monkeys but no dinosaurs? How come those monkeys didn't evolve along with the rest of us? eric, were you directing the 10 Commandments issue to me? My earlier comment was not in response to your post - it was addressed to Ed. Link to post Share on other sites
Gold Winger 9 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 "I'm gay. I've been in Scouting for 28 years," Are you still involved? If so what sort of example that you want to set? The rules don't apply to me because I'm special. My neighbors are homosexuals. Nice guys but they're usually unhappy. Not very "gay" one might say. Good neighbors otherwise. If homosexuals were allowed to be leaders we'd need new rules. Since a woman must go on an outing with any girls along because men can't be trusted. A heterosexual male would have to go on any outing with a homosexual leader. Two avowed lesbians would not be allowed to take girls on an outing unless there was a heterosexual along. However, two homosexual men would be allowed to take girls on an outing. What about homosexual youth? Should they be allowed to tent together?We don't allow co-ed tenting. More opportunity for more rules. Link to post Share on other sites
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